Dayo: 1:47

I think one thing I've struggled with as a one who's not, I don't connect with my heart a lot. Like the idea of being told in any game circles, like you can't live with that. Like, like I think I'm going to use the word armor. You can't live with that armor all the time. You have to just let it just live, be free. Like that's not realistic for me as a black woman. Like I've already seen ways in which I've attempted to do that. And that's not worked out well for me. That isn't always safe to do in certain settings and with certain people, sometimes the armor is necessary, um, because you don't know if it's a safe space or not.

2:25

Hello and welcome to Enneagram in Real Life, the podcast where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in our daily lives. I'm your host, Stephanie Barron Hall, and on today's episode, I am talking to Dao from the Black Enneagram. DIO is a lifelong student focused on bringing joy and justice to the world. She is the owner and founder of the Instagram page, the Black Enneagram, where she offers basic Enneagram education through black culture and black images. The black Enneagram combines her love of the Enneagram black culture, entertainment, and Christianity with the purpose of increasing self-awareness, growth, and relational health. Specifically in the black community. She regularly engages issues of faith, justice, self-awareness, love, and unapologetic joy. The black Enneagram is a safe haven for all people, regardless of racial identity, who want to grow in the kind of godly self-love that overflows into love for all. In this episode, Dio and I discussed her. Process of starting and growing her Instagram page as well as the past few years of her life, which were spent in law school. Um, so she was in California in law school And so we just talked all about that process and what it's like for her as a one to show up online and, you know, the different things that people say or the different types of feedback that we get, and what is so important to her about showing different things like, um, TV characters or things like that, um, in her Instagram posts. We also discussed her process of figuring out her subtype, which I think is really helpful because I've had a few different ones on the podcast recently, and I always think it's helpful to hear a little bit more about each of their subtypes and how we can kind of differentiate them. I also really appreciate DIA's perspective, um, thinking about justice in a very literal term because she's a lawyer. So, um, I loved hearing from her about that. And in fact, I believe when we were recording this, she was finishing up law school and she was preparing to take the bar, And so it was just kind of a, a crazy time for her, but you'll also get to hear a little bit more about her perspective and, um, what it's like to be inside the mind of a one when things might be a little bit stressful, um, but they're still just kind of plugging along and trusting the process, which I really appreciate about her. So I hope you'll enjoy this episode. Everything that you need to know about Daio and her Instagram page will be linked in the show notes as usual. and then one quick FYI or, uh, announcement I guess, um, is over the summer 2025, I will be on maternity leave, so I will be returning in the fall. However, I have uploaded podcast episodes to be released every other week throughout the entire summer. So you won't be without a podcast for your summer road trips or whatever you're doing, but I have a lot of fun ones coming up. Including a podcast about. Conflict mediation in which our guests learned so much from Nelson Mandela himself, which is so fascinating. A podcast about human design, one about the Enneagram and money, more podcasts from sixes, and then other underrepresented types that I've mentioned, like a type two coming later in the summer. So I am really looking forward to sharing all of those awesome interviews with you, and I hope you'll enjoy your summer as I'm working in a very different capacity, uh, for these next few months. So that's enough about what I'm up to. Without further ado, here's my conversation with dio.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 5:49

Well, Dio, welcome to the podcast.

Dayo: 5:52

thank you for having me.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 5:54

I am so happy to talk with you. It's actually kind of funny. I love you. Um, and I was like, man, I really have not interviewed once. So I started reaching out to tons of ones. And now my whole like, you know, all of the podcasts that I've, I've recorded recently have been with one. So that's really fun.

Dayo: 6:11

Okay, okay, that's good to know. That's really good to know.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 6:14

Yeah. well, I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your background, um, and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you've been up to the last couple of years.

Dayo: 6:24

Right. So, um, my name is Dayo Janaku and I am the, like, face behind the Black Enneagram. Um, I started the Black Enneagram in 2020, I believe it was 2020. Um, And, yeah, that was just birthed from this desire to, like, see more Black people in the Enneagram space, like, as both, like, real deep teachers and also as, like, just more fun, whimsical, silly teachers, um, and me wanting to kind of, like, hone in on that space for myself as, like, a more fun, less serious Enneagram teacher. Like, spreader of knowledge. I don't want to call myself a teacher. I don't think I'm at that level just yet. But, yeah. Um, I'm currently in the process of getting certified through the narrative tradition, which is really, really fun. It's a very slow process because another thing that's been happening the past couple years has been me being in law school. Um, which I'm finally finished with. I have like a week left, and then I'm graduating. So, it's been a journey. Um, but yeah, I'm originally from Houston, Texas. I live out in the Bay Area now. Um, and I came out here for law school, so I'm planning on staying here long term. So yeah, it's a little bit background, a little bit about myself. Anything else you want me to share?

Stephanie Barron Hall: 7:34

No, I think that's great. Um, I think it. One thing that made your account really different was one, you like drew the little characters, but also you did a lot of posts about TV characters, which was fun. And I'm curious what inspired that.

Dayo: 7:49

Always had like a very strong love for television and movies. I think it's just the big league television, but like some, some movies capture, capture my attention, but it's mostly television. Um, yeah, I'm like, uh, I don't, I didn't realize this until literally this year that I'm a deep introvert. I think a reason why I don't, didn't realize that is because I kind of saw, I can, I can make not real people, my friends. And that's kind of what I did was like, I was able to like super identify with certain characters on TV. So I never really felt like I was by myself or like alone. I was like, Oh, I have, I have these characters in these books and these TV shows. And so a lot of my time when I had free time was spent watching television. And also like growing up Nigerian, I didn't really, I wasn't really, Yeah. What is the word? Exposed to like black television if that makes sense. Like I think that's something people don't really realize is that Nigerian Americans and African and black Americans are raised very differently. And so it was also like me teaching myself black culture almost. Cause people would ask me like, Oh, have you seen this show? Have you seen that show? And I would say, no, like I didn't grow up on that. I grew up on like Disney and Nickelodeon and all this, like things that we all watch, but all like the classics I had missed out on. And so a lot of my like college years was me catching up on the culture. So I think that's why I did it. Cause one, I wanted to kind of teach myself how, like, what it looks like. What, what, what, what am I trying to say? Like kind of like teach myself, like the different characters that like the media portrays black people as, and then like. Change that almost like my initial intention. I think the reason why I'm going down this tangent is because my initial intention for law school was to become an entertainment attorney. And so I've seen a lot of black, like actors, actresses be treated very poorly, get bad deals. And so like, if I'm going to be in this field, this field, it makes sense for me to understand and see, and know the history behind the work that they've been doing. And so. It was a combination of like practical career stuff and then also like personal passion, um, of just like really enjoying and really connecting with characters. Like there are a few people, there are a few people in the world who like can, like, they, they so deeply resonate with the character that the character like dies and it happens to them. Like they feel it in their body. Like I'm one of those people. And so I think the fact that that was like, so easy for me to access, it was like, this is, it just makes sense to use these characters as, you know, My archetypes for the end again. So, yeah,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 10:14

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think it's kind of interesting because I remember even just seeing debates, a lot of the shows that you, um, posted about, I had no idea, like, and actually, to be honest, I don't remember like hardly any shows. Like I remember Recess,

Dayo: 10:32

Yeah. Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 10:36

or like even Nickelodeon like really at all We didn't have cable. So I watched like Nova,

Dayo: 10:44

Okay.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 10:45

Kratt Brothers, like, I don't know, you know, whatever was not on cable. Um, so, but it was interesting to read the comments and see how people were debating, like, Oh, I think it's this type, I think it's this type. And it's not necessarily that some people know more about the Enneagram than others, which sometimes, yes, but It's also like our own perspectives,

Dayo: 11:08

Exactly. That's very

Stephanie Barron Hall: 11:10

and I think that's insightful.

Dayo: 11:11

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 11:12

If you're comfortable, I'm curious if you can share a little bit more about what you mean about how Nigerian Americans are raised differently from black Americans.

Dayo: 11:20

I mean, I think having like the, what is the word? Like, cause for example, like my family, my parents, were born in Nigeria. They grew up on the culture of Nigeria. I was born there, but I grew up on the culture of America. Kind of, they, they like, were very adamant on instilling like Nigerian culture with us, but I feel like because they come from a different context. The way that they raise us is they raise us in that context. Like, like as if we're still there. They kind of have this mentality of like, what is the word? Like one of the big values in Nigerian culture is like education. So like you'll see a lot of Nigerian Americans in like high places, like they're doctors, they're lawyers, they're in politics. Like they are They are like the predominant community in like very prestigious places because education is such a big. Thing like we don't, I think I was also raised with that mindset of like, I think I remember telling my dad one time, like, Oh, look, I can't do that because, you know, I'm black. So black people can't do that. And he was like, where did you learn that? Like, where, who taught you that? That's not a thing that we, we don't believe that that's kind of the way that he was, he framed it for me is we don't believe that. And so I grew up with that mindset. I grew up not seeing. My race, my ethnicity, my race as a like limiting block, um, because they didn't have they didn't in Nigeria. Who's who's saying? Oh, you're not doing like we're all we're all black. Like we're we all have the ability to rate to like, you know, ascend to certain, you know, statuses without our race or color being a hindrance to that. Um, and so I think because they were raised in that context, they raised us in that context, kind of. Um, and so we have a very different experience. Now there are obviously a lot of black Americans who have a very similar emphasis on education belief that, you know, their race doesn't limit them. But I think there's, it was just so pronounced to me to see how, like, it was almost like out of body for my dad to hear me say that because it's so it's not. It's not the mentality, the mindset that he had. And so he didn't want us to also have that mindset. I think that's one of the very many ways that we're different, but I think that's one of the ways that I could think of right now that we're just kind of raised with in general, uh, like a different mentality. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 13:33

sounds a lot like a lot of the other immigrant experiences I've. Um, and I think that that is also really unique as well, um, because I'm sure you can relate to a lot of people like, I don't know, like I, I listened to like Ramit Sethi a lot, who is, he talks about how like his family is like, you can be a doctor, a lawyer, a failure, like that whole thing. And it sounds really similar to other Nigerian Americans I've heard discuss this.

Dayo: 14:01

Right. Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 14:02

that's really insightful. Um, okay. Tell us about how you found out about the Enneagram.

Dayo: 14:08

So I actually learned about the intergame in a Christian context. Um, I was going to church. I was in college my last year of college, I believe, or maybe second to last, but I was in college and I was in church and, you know, college years just, you're going through so much like identity searching and not really knowing who you are, what you want to do. Um, and so I had a friend named Hannah, who was part of my church. And she was like, I, I, I, in my head, I saw her as like a mentor. She's more just a friend, more just a friend, but I held her to that esteem of like mentor. And so I would talk to her about things that I was going through as a college student. She was much, much older than I was. And she was really into the Enneagram. So she taught me, she's like, not taught me, but she like introduced it. Like, I think you should look into this. This could be very helpful for you. That was like, what, 22, 23 at the time I was like very young, but I loved, I love personality tests. Like I, I, you know, the Myers Briggs, I got knew my Zodiacs, like all the things that will tell me who I am and why I am the way that I am, I gravitate towards, so I latched onto the Enneagram like for dear life. Cause like, I really, I have never felt so seen and heard and understood. I think when I was finding my type. It felt very instinctual. Um, for me, it was like, Oh, this is me. Like, I think a lot of people say like, you know, what's your type. If you don't like what you hear, but for me, for me, it was like, I've already heard all these things about myself and I've already, I already feel these things about my, all the bad stuff. I already feel these things. Just like I'm getting new information. Like, this is just, this is just a part of who I am. I've been, I haven't really embraced it, but I've gotten used to this narrative of, Oh, she's uptight and perfectionist and all these, yeah. So I just kind of. Gravitated towards the end again because I felt very Validated through it. I think that's the perfect word for it. I felt very validated through it for sure.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 15:53

Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, and then I'm curious to hear how you kind of like started your Instagram from there because, you know, a lot of us find our Enneagram type and a lot of people don't go and, you know, start posting online. I mean, I don't know, you know, I did the same thing, but I'm just curious.

Dayo: 16:14

Yeah. So again, I was in college and I think this was definitely my senior year. During my senior year, we were asked to do a project in my, cause I was a business major, we actually do a project in my creativity and innovation and business class, I think that's what it's called. And the project was basically like to. Come up with an idea, a project that was like novel, never been done before. No, one's doing it. And that's a very difficult thing to do in like 2020, 2020. I think it was 2020 when this

Stephanie Barron Hall: 16:39

Yes.

Dayo: 16:40

so much has already been created, has been done, but as I was like getting deep diving into the Enneagram, I was realizing that a lot of the accounts that I was following were white women and I was like, Oh, I don't, where are the black, black girls or the black men, where are they? And I was like, you know what, this is perfect for my project. So I decided to create. The Instagram page for school. And then, um, I kept talking to people about it and they were like, no, you should continue, you should keep doing it, even though, you know, I've gotten my A. So I'm like, I don't really need to continue this, but it felt like it started to kind of become like a passion. Like I really want to do this as fun for me now. Um, it's not just for the grade. It's like, no, this is actually. In real life needed. Um, so yeah, shout out to that professor for that amazing assignment, because I don't think that we really think about like what, what really is missing from the world. And how can I, I call myself like a professional gap filler. Like even my desire to go to law school was because I was like, we're all the black girl lawyers. Like, where are we? Um, and so I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm just going to be the one to join the forces because I can't, I'm not, I don't know. I just feel like that's, that's a natural thing as a part of my personality, that reformer in me of like, things are not as they should be. How can I be a part of the thing that fixes it? So, yeah. Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 17:55

because, um, I think, I mean, this is just my perspective, but like, the more you make space, like, and the more that you show up in that space, the more you pave the way for, like, more Black women or Black content creators or whatever. Um, Who are not like this, I mean, I'm so white. I feel like could be a total hashtag. So, like, I think that, like, creating more space paves the way so that more people can find it. Because even in my experience, I work in a lot of cross cultural context using the Enneagram, um, with like, teams and stuff. And I think it's so useful to have other insights that are not from my perspective and to recognize that. I'm bringing a bias to this. Everyone brings a bias to it. Um, so like, let's put that out in the open and see how your experience differs. I think that's so important.

Dayo: 18:46

yeah, yeah. I definitely agree. I think that's something that I'm hoping to, to really get, because I feel like it's hard to really put a pin on how being black changes my expression of my oneness. Like, I think it's hard to like, figure that out. And I think that that's going to take a lot of research, a lot of like, polling, figuring out how people like, view their self with their blackness and their Enneagram type. Like, I feel like it's a, it's a very. I would have to, like, go to school for, like, psychology and, like, Africana studies. Like, I would have to basically create this whole creating and, like, be entering. I'm certified in all these different places for me to truly, truly, like, see how the differences show up. Because I think that it's there. I think that I'm able to articulate it on an instinctual level. But I think one of the blind spots with that instinct is, like, are you logically thinking through this? Like, is this true for everyone? Um, and so, yeah, that's been a challenge for me for sure. But I think that's it's very true. Like, I think Instinctually, we know that there's a difference, but the tangible results of that is hard to see sometimes. Yeah,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 19:46

absolutely. And I think too, you know, even working with, for example, like the sexual force subtype in various different cultures, it's like, Oh wow, this expresses really differently. Um, and so

Dayo: 19:57

Wow,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 19:59

sure even for the one, you know, as well, though, it does sound like there are some ways that that. Well, natural because there was a sense of perfection that was kind of expected of

Dayo: 20:09

right, right, for sure, yeah. Yeah, reading, I don't know if you've read Chi Chi's book, um, The Intergang for Black Liberation, but that book is a great starting point for seeing the nuances and the differences. She talks about, um, Nigerian culture being an eight culture, um, and I think that is very accurate and I think that it goes very, it goes, it works with the type one because the type one wants to avoid the eight energy almost, like, I don't want the, I don't want the, the challenge, I don't want this, I don't want the struggle, I just want. What I want, I want it to be done the way that I want it to be done. And so I feel like, I feel like I have a type eight father. I think I'm not completely sure because he, I don't think he would take the test, but I think I have a type eight dad. And so I can see how coming from that culture, the one wants to just like comply almost, um, even though I'm not an eight, I can, I can definitely see how my oneness, what is the word compliments that eight culture for sure.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 21:06

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there also could be like that part where you're saying, like the gap filler mentality of being like, I'm going to find some gap and I'm going to change this, you know, because that can be the one reformer, but it can also be a bit of that, like eight kind of maverick mentality. We talked about,

Dayo: 21:23

No, I like that. I didn't think about that. I like that. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 21:27

that, that book as well is just so good. I really like the way that Chi Chi writes about armor. And I think that that's a really good framing. And I also just think that her perspective of like looking at the social, um, kind of environment more broadly, I think is really useful.

Dayo: 21:45

I agree. I agree. I think that I appreciate that perspective because I think one thing I've struggled with as a one who's not, I don't connect with my heart a lot. Like the idea of being told in any game circles, you can't live with that. Like, like I think I'm going to use the word armor. You can't live with that armor all the time. You have to just let it just live, be free. Like that's not realistic for me as a black woman. Like I've already seen ways in which I've attempted to do that. And that's not worked out well for me. So I appreciate Chi Chi, like, like acknowledging that. That isn't always safe to do in certain settings and with certain people, um, and respecting that. Sometimes the armor is necessary, um, because you don't know if it's a safe space or not. So yeah, I really, I, that book was, is amazing for sure.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 22:32

Yeah. And then she goes and creates spaces for

Dayo: 22:35

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 22:36

Black women to do

Dayo: 22:36

Right, exactly I

Stephanie Barron Hall: 22:41

what about your subtype journey? How did you find your subtype?

Dayo: 22:46

don't remember to be honest. I know i'm i know i'm predominantly like social I think the sexual and the self press switches depending on the situation Um, but i'm definitely social like I think that that's something that I haven't thought about it in a while Because we were talking about earlier how long i've been away from My instagram and the interviewing space. It's been a quite some time because like having difficulty Difficulty juggling both law school and, um, the indie game space. But what I remember, I feel like my social, the way I, the reason why I knew I had a social instinct is because I'm very like, what is the word? I'm very, it's like I want the world to change. Like I want, I want to change, but I also want the world to change. I want the world to be better. Um, I think sometimes I approach that in a way that's very like finger pointing and very like, like, I don't know what the word is. That's like, I haven't. Had this language in my repertoire for a while, so I don't think I'm articulating it well But yeah, I just feel like social was just instinctually it felt the other two definitely didn't feel instinctually Right when I was reading about them for the one. Um, because I don't really need that. I don't need one person I feel like oh, okay now i'm thinking about it Using that language of I don't need that one person helps me realize that the reason why I think I'm social was because of how important community was for me or is for me. I remember when I first moved here, I was like really struggling because I didn't have a community. Um for a whole year just like trying to figure out like where are my people and I finally found my people but it Took me so long That like I think because that's that's my default is like to have a group like having one person's not enough Like I need to have a group Of people no matter where i'm at and I didn't I didn't get to form that in my law school That also made my law school experience not very positive as well So it's like i'm realizing that for me to to thrive in certain spaces. I have to be in You A community, I have to have a tribe, a group of people. Um, and yeah, I think that's, that's what I can remember right now about how the social, social self present one to one come together, but yeah, sorry, it's been a minute.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 24:50

How did you find your people?

Dayo: 24:52

Church, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was trying a lot to find them in law school and it just was not working. Um, yeah, I think there's like a, there was like a values. difference for me with my law, with my fellow law students. Um, cause I don't know if you know, but like the legal industry is a very like drinking heavy, party heavy industry. Um, because they work so hard, they want to like let loose. And I appreciate that. I understand that. But I think for me, my idea of like fun was more wholesome. And I feel like, yeah, church was just the best place to find wholesome folks who just like, want to like have picnics and, you know, have a movie night and talk throughout the night. Like, just like something that's strenuous to like the mind and the body. Um, so yeah, I found them at church. A lot of them, um, share my same values. And one thing I really enjoyed about being in the Bay Area is that church here is very different from church in the South. I used to live in Houston. It's very different from church in the South because there's more of like an open handedness and more of like an accepting, inclusive energy that I didn't really experience in the South. Um, Yeah, like there's more room for questioning and exploring that I don't think I've ever seen a church like be open to. So yeah, it was just like the perfect timing for when I found them and yeah, they have been my, my rock, my saving grace. I just finished, I just came back from hanging out with one of my friends from church. So it's, yeah, it's been, it's been great.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 26:19

Yeah, I think that's so important. And I think even for, you know, so I, uh, resonate most with like a social, uh, repressed actually, um, and so it's kind of interesting for me because I don't always seek out community, but I can really tell when I don't have it. And I'm missing that. Um, Yeah, so that, that makes sense. And I think, you know, just thinking about a few other things about the social and I'm curious how these resonate with you. Um, but my perspective, just being like fellow Instagram person back in the day, like we're both like semi retired now, I suppose. Um, don't, don't tell anyone I said that. No, um, but like. You come across as like, I'm doing the right thing, like, but, but not, it's very much the modeling characteristic of the social. It's not, um, I know you said it feels finger pointy, but that was not my experience of you just like observing. Um, and then another piece is that you are very cerebral. And I think that that is how social subtypes or the social one in particular is. Um, and that makes sense to

Dayo: 27:29

Yeah. Okay, okay. I appreciate that. That makes sense.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 27:33

Yeah, I'm curious if you see your oneness show up in like your desire to do law, like, what interests you about that.

Dayo: 27:44

That's a good question. I think, because I have a wingtoo, and the one wingtoo's like, name is The Advocate. Because like, as a one, you, you're trying to make change, but like, you want to make change in a way that's helpful as a one wing too. And I think that for me, I looked at like my skills, my, even my decision to become an attorney instead of doing something else, I really wrestled with this decision all through college of like, am I doing it for myself? Am I doing it for my dad? Like my dad really wanted me to be an attorney because I think he wanted to be an attorney, but he couldn't. So he was like, I need one of my kids needs to fulfill this dream for me. And I was the lucky one. And so I took. to kind of really think about who I want for myself. And I thought about like what skills do I possess and reading and writing was really high for me. Um, throughout my, my school, my college experience. Um, but really it's like that, that desire to like, see things be equitable and fair has been like a through line throughout my entire life. Like, I think it's a pattern of like, no matter where I'm, where I'm at, what I'm doing, like, it's, I, I'm always trying to ensure that like, everyone feels, feels represented, everyone feels seen, everyone feels like they're getting. the fair end of the stick. Um, and I think that I'm real after being in law school for three years, I'm realizing that it's a lot more complicated than that. Um, because powers that be, you know what I mean? All these, there's so many controlling factors that make it very difficult for justice to be achieved. But yeah, I think that's what I came into law school with the mentality of is like, how can I use my presence to create fairness and equity for the people who I'll either serve in the future or who I'm in school with? Like, that's been a big, Big thing for me. Um, so yeah, I think that reformer piece of like representation of representation and wanting people to see themselves in either a tool or in the law. Like, that really has been the reason that was a big reason why I went to law school was because I was like, I wanted to see. More people who look like me doing big things. I don't know, like, like that was, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 29:49

I saw a stat recently, and it could be totally wrong, but that it was like 2 percent of lawyers in the US are black women or something like that.

Dayo: 29:58

That's it. It's accurate. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 30:02

is so incredibly small.

Dayo: 30:04

incredibly small. I think like 5 percent are black in general, but yeah, black women is only 2%. Yeah, it's difficult. I, I understand the desire not to step into the field. It is, it is still like very dominated by people who don't look like us, who don't think like us. And so. You are kind of throwing yourself into the lion's den, honestly, when you make this kind of commitment, but you know, someone has to do it, I guess. So, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 30:32

I have a friend who like started a startup cause she worked at all these tech companies and she was like, I am so used to being the only black woman in the room. And so she started like a company around that. Um,

Dayo: 30:45

I love that.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 30:47

so I'm curious if you can share a little bit, if you're comfortable about your inner critic and what that looks like for the social one, because I think a lot of the time self preservation one, the way that that inner critic plays out is a lot more how it's discussed. And

Dayo: 31:06

Right. I feel like for me in the beginning, I didn't, I wasn't able to decipher between my inner critic and like the quote unquote Holy spirit. Like I thought that that was one person. Um, It was like a very toxic relationship that I had with my faith for a long time. Cause I was like, it's like constant, you're doing it wrong, fix it. Like you need to, you know, you need to get it together type of energy. And it's like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel correct. Something is off here. And as I, when I took a, I took a step back, like when, when church was like closed and you know, the pandemic was going on, that was kind of my chance to like really take a step back from. All of the religious doings that I was doing, um, to really figure out like what exactly is this doing for me? How is this exactly growing me? And at the same time I was learning about the enneagram And so I started to realize I thought I was I was starting to be able to separate my inner critic and My and the holy spirit's voice I start to do that much easier. I think that today I I a part of me doesn't fully resonate anymore with the inner critic not because I don't hear it But it's because like a part of me can talk to her now Can I because I because i've deciphered it from this religious being I now have more access to like Oh, like that isn't true. Like i've noticed myself In moments when I'm like down spiraling, where I like catch myself and I speak back to the voice. Um, and I think that has been a, like a very helpful tool and it's kind of honestly, It gets her less power when she's talking because I'm like no like at the end of the day I'm in the driver's seat like you have you can be in the back you can be in the trunk You just can't be in the driver's seat Um, I think that's been that's been helpful But I think in general when I think of my inner critic like you're you were insinuating before it's like a very berating mean Like hateful voice. Um, I think it comes out the most when I'm like, cause I'm, I'm newly in a relationship and I'm, I'm noticing that it's coming out now. Like it's, I'm yeah, I'm just like, I'm just in a very, a struggle when you're, when you have that one inner critic in you, because then you, it spills out onto other people. Like it's very difficult to not be like, to not like embody the inner critic and be the critic of someone else. That's been a big challenge is like not allowing my inner critic to be someone else's, like, you know, barometer for like, what's good and bad. Um, I honestly really want to sit down with a married type one. Like I want to ask them, how do you do it? Like, genuinely, how do you do it? Cause I feel like I don't, it's like, there's no one in the world who is going to be this perfect person that my inner critic wants to be with. Like there's no one who's going to measure up to what she's looking for. Um, and so that makes it difficult for me being in situations, with me and being in relationships. Cause I'm like, well, she wants this perfect person. No one exists who fits her standards. So what do I do with that information and how do I reconcile those two things? I'm not sure if I answered your question, but that's kind of what I was thinking about on the line, along the lines of the inner critic is like one deciphering between the Holy Spirit and my inner critic, making quote unquote, not friends with her, but like kind of asserting power over her almost. And then like noticing it, noticing her come back and seeing. Ways in which she's harming, I mean, it's still me, but it's like, I'm harming other people. Um, because my inner critic has been so loud and I'm so like, I think for me relationships, cause my sexual, um, instinct is so low. Um, I have, I have trouble desiring like one on one partnership. Like, it's like, I I'm like fighting. It's like a war in my head of like, do I even really need this? Like, do I even need this? Like, it doesn't feel like a necessity to me. Um, I think the inner critic is, like, helping me self sabotage, honestly. She's helping me to ruin this potentially really good thing because she's like, well, do we even need this? Like, is this even a necessity in our life? Because, you know, all the stuff that relationships come with, you know, are much easier when you're, in my opinion, by yourself. Um, and that's something that she's explicitly told me is like, life will be just be single. You would be fine. You'd be happier. You'd be at peace and everything would be great. But I'm, that's not true. Like, I mean, to an extent, yes, we can be happy on our own, but like, another part of me does desire a partnership and I'm like having to play this, this war, this game with her to figure out what do I actually want? So, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 35:34

Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting. I like that image that you gave us about, you know, putting saying you can be in the passenger seat, you can be in the trunk, like you can ride on top of the car, but you can't be in the driver's

Dayo: 35:45

Right. Right. Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 35:46

And I think that's useful because a lot of the time we hear instruction to ones like just fight back or just like tunnel shut up. And I've actually heard from most ones that is not very helpful. Um, and taking more of a perspective of like, we're friends. You know, I'm driving here, I'm older and wiser than you are,

Dayo: 36:06

Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 36:07

you know, maybe we're not even friends sometimes,

Dayo: 36:09

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 36:09

you know, you can still speak up, you can do whatever you want, but I'm gonna drive.

Dayo: 36:14

Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, exactly. Okay.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 36:20

So you mentioned that you can be critical of this person that you are dating. And, um, I recently had Sam and Lindsay and I don't remember their last names, but they're like the sexpert people. Um, I interviewed them for the podcast. So I think that that one will have already released when we release this one. Um, so yeah. But they talked about how when you're new in a relationship, a lot of the time, the sexual instincts will rise up to the top, which is interesting because I've heard a lot of people say, Oh, well, when I was dating, I was sexual, but now I'm like this other

Dayo: 36:54

Oh, interesting.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 36:56

and so. The way that you described, like criticizing that other person feels, I mean, socials and self press still criticize other people, but like the sexuals do it the most, like sexual instinct people, um, do that the most in terms of ones. And I wonder if there's like a little bit of that coming up, but then your social instinct is like, Oh, hold on. No, no, no.

Dayo: 37:19

Yeah. I never thought about that. I appreciate that perspective. Yeah. I think that might be what's going on is like, my sexual is trying to, like, I don't even know, maybe like protect me protect the relationship. Like, I don't know, maybe like a protective instinct happening there of like, we really care about this person. But like, the one in me is like, well, if you really care about the person you want it to work needs to be perfect. So if he's going to be perfect and we have to make sure we hit all, we find all the cracks in the pavement, all the cracks in the foundation, we point them out and we bring them to the surface so that we can fix the cracks. Um, but not everyone cares. Like not anyone has that same. Like desire, if that makes sense, which is difficult for ones. Cause ones are like, well, we all see the problems. Like we, they're everywhere. They're rampant, but the other people, the other person often is just like, they're living their life. They're enjoying their life. They're not as focused on the issues as I am. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:12

And I think. Sexual ones in particular tend to think. Like, this is very subconscious. So it's not always the way they actually think, but it's like, I deserve to have a perfect partner.

Dayo: 38:23

Yes!

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:23

I deserve the ideal.

Dayo: 38:28

Yes! Absolutely. And I, I've had to, like, fight myself from that belief and be like, no, like, I'm not even perfect. How dare I be expecting another human being to be perfect for me? Yeah, I, I resonate with that very deeply. Wow. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:45

That's so funny. Cause to me, it sounds like, I guess I think because I am like the sexual instinct dominant, then I'm like, okay, well, I get the looking for the ideal partner thing, but to me, it's never about that person being a perfect person, but more like perfect for me,

Dayo: 39:03

I love that. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:05

um, which is unattainable by

Dayo: 39:08

Right. That's awesome.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:10

It's all unattainable when we're talking about like being idealistic, but

Dayo: 39:14

Yeah, that's, I think that's been the biggest struggle is like balancing that of like, you want someone who's going to be good to you, kind to you, all the basics, but like what, which things are unrealistic to expect, you know, from another person who also has their own stuff going on and has their own life and has, you know, their own history and background and all these things. Um, yeah, they don't exist for my, for my like fun and pleasure. Like they're their own entity. Um, so that's been, it's been interesting to explore that for sure.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:44

Yeah. It's not like a sitcom where like they cease to exist when they're not in frame. Yeah.

Dayo: 39:49

Exactly. Exactly.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:50

Um, that's so funny. Okay. I'm curious to hear a little bit about the narrative Enneagram and, um, what that process has been like for you to kind of explore that, why you chose the narrative, all the things.

Dayo: 40:04

So the narrative, um, they actually reached out. I think they reached out to me. I don't remember how this came about, but they were offering a scholarship, um, like a completely free scholarship for you to, for, um, I guess, BIPOC, um, students that wanted to learn about the Enneagram. And so I really didn't pay for this, um, this program at all, which has been very, very helpful. And that's why I probably chose them. And they've also been really, really great about putting Like their money and their, like, action behind their, like, words. Um, because they'll, like, a lot of organizations will say, like, Oh, we care about, you know, inclusion, diversity, all these things. But then you look at, like, their staff, you look at who's in the room and, like, there's no one that looks like any, like, it's like a monolith. And the narrative tradition has been very, very great about, like, including more people, um, who look, who don't, who don't fit the stereotypical, like, you know, student. Um, one thing I will say is that towards the beginning, I think when I was training In 2020, 2021. I mean, it's been a three year process, but even in all those classes, I was often maybe one of like three black people. And one thing I really love about the narrative tradition is that they, when I would bring that up and I would say, oh, like, I'm, you know, I'm gonna count. I count every single room I walk into, I'm counting. I'm like, where are my people? Are they in the room? And I would, and I would bring up like, Oh, it's like kind of difficult to be open. I noticed that my, my willingness to be like emotionally open and vulnerable in this space is limited because I don't see my people here. Like I don't feel comfortable. And they were very much received that very, very well. Um, and that made me continue to like use their program and get their, get the certification from them. Cause I felt like what I'm saying is probably very difficult to hear. Like they can't control, you know, who takes their classes, but they, Change like they changed even certain wording in their curriculum to like, make the space feel more like more inclusive and more inviting for people of color, like they really just like put like their feet to the pavement and like done the work and they've hired more people of color on like their higher up team like they've just been so good about it. And so I think for me, like, seeing that, seeing them take to heart the feedback that they've heard from BIPOC people who have taken their classes has just been so like. Affirming almost like I'm not crazy like this. I'm not asking for too much like they also agree that we need more people in this space who don't who don't fit in the stereotypical like any gam Student and so yeah, I think that's probably why I chose them. The experience has been great has been great I've taken it very very slow. They allow you to get very very slow Because I'm again juggling a lot of things at once Yeah, I think the way that they teach is very, someone who's not very connected to her heart, like, I'm not, I just don't know how to access that, that part of me, part of myself, being in those classes, it really challenges me to like, stay present. Because my instinct and when I'm like being fully challenged emotionally is to just like withdraw and like shut down and just like not engage and I mean for like we would have like three day I think like weekend long um classes from like nine to five. And it would just be feelings and feelings. And I'm like, I don't, I don't live here. Like I don't live in the, in the heart. I think the way that they approach the Enneagram is like very, very heart centered, which I love because you kind of have to, if you don't approach it from a heart, from a heart perspective, you're missing out on so much. Um, but it really challenged my, like, my gut instinct of like. We should run. Like, we need to go. This is hard. This is not the easiest thing to do. Um, and actually tapping into my heart and slowing down. Like, that's something I've learned from them as well, is like the art of slowing down and like, There'd be times when, if I'm a very fast talker as you can hear, there'd be times when I would like be talking and I'd be going so fast and they'd be like, let's stay there. I think that has stuck with me for such a long time because I'm like, I'm always trying to move to the next thing. I have, I have a lot of three in me as well. Uh, we're all trying to move to the next thing, do the next thing. I'm like very efficiency, productive, like that's kind of my natural mode of being. And they really taught me the art of like slowing down. So yeah, it's been a good experience. I'm currently in the I think internship part where I'm like going to be doing interviews with people not interviews. Yeah, typing interviews. Yeah, typing interviews with people to help them figure out their types. And so I'm excited for that. Probably going to start that after the bar because I don't want to stress myself out. Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with it right now. And it's been a great experience. I would absolutely recommend it for like anyone who's looking to get certified in the Enneagram.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 44:47

Yeah. I love that. That sounds really cool. And I really appreciate that they took those opportunities to like really address your concerns Because I think I mean ethically morally they have to do that But like to meet their bottom line, they don't have to you know

Dayo: 45:05

don't.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 45:06

And I appreciate that they decided like yes This is worth doing because it absolutely is like and I I have no interest in doing another enneagram certification at this point, but I, that makes me want to go and take their classes.

Dayo: 45:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 45:26

Oh, 1 other thing I wanted to mention is how long these can take. So the program that I did, um, you have a 2 year time limit. So if you get outside of that 2 years and you have to retake

Dayo: 45:41

Oh, shoot! Okay.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 45:43

So it does, it is, it does impact the cost, right, because it can be cost prohibitive and if you have to do all these different things over time, and it's a really condensed timeframe, um, like mine took almost two years to do, and I know other people who, you know, have taken, you know, That long and it can be challenging. Um,

Dayo: 46:07

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 46:08

and so I'm curious how many, do you remember the structure of it? Like how many different weekends do you have and stuff like that?

Dayo: 46:17

I think there's about like there's like different topics and you have to in order to go to the next topic you have to finish a certain topic and I don't really I don't think there's a time limit I really don't I'm not sure if there is but no one has imposed the time limit on me um but yeah so basically like they have an order of classes that you have to take and then you take them I think they're always like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday like nine to five sometimes depending on your you know obviously your um time zone. It'll be different, but like, it's kind of like that full day for three days straight, straight. I think I did it the way I did it was like, maybe like once every quarter I took the class. Um, and maybe it was like five, six classes that you need to take before you can start your, before you can start your internship, um, part of it. And then the internship part is, um, you work on building questions to conduct like, um, what do you call those? Typing interviews with people? Because the goal is to kind of know, kind of get familiar with how the types look, how they answer questions, um, what kind of questions to ask them to get, you know, the information that you need. Um. Yeah, I think those are the things I can remember. It's been so long. It's definitely been more than two years. I don't even remember what. Yeah, it's definitely been more than two years.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 47:30

Well, yeah, but that's useful. I think even for people to hear, because even, you know, I have a course that sometimes people Have asked me, Oh, is this a certification? And I know that there are certifications that are under a thousand dollars. It takes six weeks to get through the material or even less and you're done. Um, and I think it's worth hearing how intensive a lot of these Enneagram programs really are. Mine was a different setup, but it still is intensive, right? Like. there's still quite a bit happening. Um, but those are the people that you want to teach you

Dayo: 48:02

exactly.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 48:03

you have such a deep understanding and deep knowledge and have had to do a lot of the work of like formulating your approach yourself.

Dayo: 48:10

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, they're, they're very thorough in the things that they teach you and like why they're teaching you it. Um, they don't, they don't spend too much time on like things that aren't like super relevant, like for like a beginner learner. Um, yeah. They do a good job of giving you like a good foundational base knowledge for sure. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 48:30

You mentioned that you have a lot of three. I'm curious how you know you're a one versus a three.

Dayo: 48:38

Oh geez, that has been a long, a long journey. That is, I, I feel like I'm still kind of in the limbo of, am I a three, am I a one? I recently started watching this show called Insecure again for the fourth time. And one of the characters, Molly, I think is a three, but I didn't really resonate with her. I think a lot of people would say like, oh, you're just like Molly, you're just like Molly, you're just like Molly. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't see any of myself in this woman. Um. And then I watched it again most recently. And I'm like, Oh, I see what people are saying. Um, so I might be a three. I don't know. I'm not sure because I think, I think the more I get exposed, this is why I like, I like what, like using television as like a way to like mirror myself, because sometimes I think that I seem to think I have like grow when I get older, I start to become more aware of where I'm actually at, like where am I, my, um, personality is actually placed in. Um, so yeah, I'm not completely sure, but I think the reason why I think I'm more. One than three is that if I had to choose like going fast to get something done versus going slow and getting it done right, I would choose going slow and getting it done right. I think that little difference, I think, I thought that was a big thing that I'm like, I'm not, I appreciate efficiency, but like, if that means that I might have to take like shortcuts or like do it in a way that's not going to look right, or it's not as detail oriented, that just doesn't. Sit well with me. So I feel like that was one way that I was like, okay, maybe i'm not a three and then also the like This is a stereotype this is not like a all threes do this but like the The like aesthetic like I have to always look good I have to always look put together like That isn't something that I I mean, I I feel like I naturally do it like I don't have to put a lot of effort It's just like a natural i'm not i don't want to I don't want to walk out into the world looking a certain way But i'm not Yeah, I'm not too worried about it. Like I can walk out. I've heard that people, I don't know if this is a three thing, but like I remember hearing how people, some people don't feel comfortable walking out the house without like some type of makeup on and that has never been a Thing for me, like it's never been like a problem for me. And that's like not a three thing, but it's like something that I feel like if I was more image conscious, I think I would be like, yeah, active, full face be every single day, like that would my, my, my default. But yeah, I feel like I'm still figuring it out though. I'm so I'm still figuring it out and maybe you can help me, but I think that that's probably the biggest way that I know I'm not a three. Is that the shortcuts, like the China find a faster. Okay. Easier way is not my default. It's more so the, no, how can I do this in a way that's, it's going to get the job done. I may have to go slower, but like, if I'm going slow, that means I'm being paying attention to detail. Um, and that's more important to me. So yeah, I don't know.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 51:28

That makes sense. And I think, um, like the reason I wanted to call that out is because sometimes. People talk about productivity and efficiency as if those, those are only three characteristics, and they're not. A lot of us really enjoy that. Um, and I, a couple of years ago, actually, I, Somebody sent me a children's book that they wrote. It was very cute. It was supposed to be about like each Enneagram type. Um, and this one was supposed to be, uh, just a single type. And so I read through it and I was like, Oh my gosh, it's so cute. It's like all about all these different things. And then I was like, this is a cute book about type three. And I read the author thing and it said it was supposed to be about type one. And I was like, Oh, no. Um, because I think a lot of the perfectionism can be really similar. But what I think is the biggest distinction is like where you get your sense of accomplishment and achievement. And I think ones find that more internally. And I find that threes find it more like externally, like, they're a lot more concerned about how others perceive them, how they seem to others. Um, do other people think I'm doing a good job? Are they admiring me? Do they respect me? That sort of thing. Also, ones I think can be a lot more, um. Productive

Dayo: 52:47

okay.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 52:48

simply because you can, you have the ability to be like, you know what, it doesn't actually matter how I feel about this right now. Like, I'm just going to do it. Right. And, um, you definitely have that, that ability. I think I, threes don't have that as much. I don't think, um, threes have a lot more of that connection to the heart. And they're like, I don't know.

Dayo: 53:12

That's actually very, very helpful. That's very helpful. I think that value pieces is probably the most important thing of like where you get the validation from the internal or the external. Um, yeah, I don't think I need people's external validation. I actually don't like when people, like, I feel like obviously to an extent I like when people affirm me externally, like it doesn't mean as much until I feel that way for myself. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure that all like threes also want to feel that way for themselves at the end of the day,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 53:44

yes,

Dayo: 53:44

have right, but I think my default is like do I think I'm doing a job? Like do I think I'm going to doing a good job like to my standard of how I want to be how I want to show up in the world like am I doing? I've said a lot of times to my partner like, you know, take it or leave it. This is who I am. Like, I'm not really looking for you to be like, Oh, you're such a good girlfriend. You just, I don't care. If I'm being a good girlfriend means I have to abandon myself. I am not doing this. I'm not

Stephanie Barron Hall: 54:13

I love that.

Dayo: 54:14

Yeah. And so,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 54:16

don't think you understand how healthy that is.

Dayo: 54:21

yeah, I just, I just don't, I care about his validation to an extent. Like I think the minute it starts to. Make me feel like I'm losing myself. I think if I watched my parents have that, that kind of dynamic, I'm like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not following in that footstep. Sorry.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 54:36

Yeah, yeah, I also think, you know, when you're saying, oh we go, I go to these events, and maybe it's because I am older, so I've had a lot more experience, I think, when I was 25, I would have been like, ew, feelings, gross. But going to those like, you know, five day long things where you're just all in the fields, I'm like, Ooh, I love it.

Dayo: 55:02

Oh.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 55:03

just like such a heart type

Dayo: 55:04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 55:08

I think that that can be like a big difference. Um, I think something that ones are really good at is thinking about, do I have capacity for this? Like, this is something that I teach a lot when I go into, um, stuff because threes, Are just like one of our most toxic traits is thinking I can do five weeks worth of work in one afternoon

Dayo: 55:30

no.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 55:32

and we absolutely can't and then we feel like a failure because we've made this mountainous projection for ourselves and then we can't actually accomplish it. Um, like I have been working on a project and my co Like my colleague that I'm working on it with, he was like, yeah, so to do this part of that, you're going to need a whole team. And I was like, Oh, I was going to do that myself. Like just not being realistic. I think ones are a lot more realistic about how much they can actually accomplish and do well in the timeframe given without sacrificing their entire body for it.

Dayo: 56:08

Exactly, exactly. No, that's, honestly, that's making me think of, there was a scene in the show that I was watching, I referred to earlier, Insecure, where Molly was supposed to be going out to Coachella with her friend. And she like, Literally right before she had to leave they were like, oh who wants to help with xyz? And she like volunteered herself even though she's on her way to coach. I was like never do that. I'm not I'm, like look at I see that as an opportunity For me to get out and do what I want to do And then when I come back if that if that project is still available, then i'll take on take it on but I I feel like Yeah, that was just a strange kind of out of out of outer out of body like experience watching her say When she clearly had made a commitment to her friends already to like be

Stephanie Barron Hall: 56:48

like my friend. What are you doing?

Dayo: 56:51

then while she was on the vacation she couldn't even enjoy it like she had to like I don't know that was just that was hard for me to watch because like I don't I don't think that that's my default is to like Be like the overachiever, like the, let me, Oh yeah, I can do it. I can do it. I can do it. Like, I feel like I'm very, I'm very organized with the way that I have my calendar and I've I'm so, I feel like I know how much something takes me, how long it takes me to do that. I'm like, if I do all these things, it's probably going to drain my energy. And so I know how to say no. That's one of my favorite words in the world is no. And I think that sometimes could come off as like, I feel like I can come off very mean and very like, Oh, she's not selfless. I'm not selfless. Like I'm, I'm just really not selfless. Like, I'm not going to put myself in a position where like, you want, you, you've asked for this thing, but like, I'm going to have to give it to you in a way that's not good because I didn't have the time to really like focus my attention on it. So, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 57:50

no. Yeah. I, uh, I looked up Molly, um, from insecure because I remember I watched it, but I, I swear I have like movie amnesia or like TV show amnesia. Second, I'm done watching it. I do not remember a single thing. Um, so I was like, Oh yeah, I do remember thinking that Molly feels like a three, but also she's like, like kind of insufferable

Dayo: 58:13

No, literally. Literally. No, that was why I was so, like, when people would say, like, oh, you remind me of Molly, I'm like, that's kind of disrespectful. Like, I'm not anything

Stephanie Barron Hall: 58:23

mean, it's kind of rude.

Dayo: 58:24

can, I can see it. I can see the, I think that insufferable part of her is the, is part of her. Maybe someone in her, that's like, I want this to be a certain way. And when they don't, when they don't show up the way that I want it to show up or it doesn't happen the way I want it to happen, I'm gonna make it a big deal. When I could just really accept the situation as it is. And I, that's what I, I really resonated with that. Of just being like, not able to be happy and have joy in a moment because I'm just so focused on, well I kind of wanted it. To look like this, it doesn't look like that. Like even the man that she ended up in the end, I did not like that she ended up with him, but I'm like, she's happy. So I can't really complain, complain. That was evidence of her really letting go of control. Cause he wasn't her ideal. Right. But he was a good man. So yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:12

Yeah. Well, I think that also threes do tend to be like more adaptable to change

Dayo: 59:18

see. Uh, right,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:20

and, and ones I think have like, I don't like it if it's somebody else's idea, but I don't want to feel miserable. So I will reframe it and I will, I'll be like, actually, it's better that it turned out this way. It's like kind of a seven ish coping mechanism. Um, and yeah, it sounds like that might be a little bit different as well.

Dayo: 59:38

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I have, I have struggled. I struggled greatly. Compromise, adaptability, all these things.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:46

Mhm. Mhm. We all have our work.

Dayo: 59:48

right, right. Yeah,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:51

You'll just be more rested while you're doing it, probably. M3s.

Dayo: 59:55

Right.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:56

Okay. Well, I'm curious. Where can people find you? What are you working on?

Dayo: 1:00:02

Yeah. So I'm actually thinking of moving my platform to my website. Um, I'm have a website, but I haven't really been posting on it. But that's kind of where I'm I want to move. And like, um, point people to instead of my Instagram, my Instagram is still there. Um, I was probably going to stay on there forever. I might come back, who knows what will happen in the future. Um, but my Instagram is obviously the black Enneagram and the website is same thing, www. theblackenneagram. com. Um, yeah, those are the two biggest things. two biggest ways you can find me. Um, I do have like a little mini book coming out. Um, I don't know when. I actually do not know the publishing date. But that's coming out soon. Um, I'm hoping. And so I'm hoping to share like the links and stuff like that on my Instagram when it does come out. But it's basically just like a very beginner level and you can book. Um, not much of me is in it, unfortunately. But like, it's, um, like, you know, getting the reps in of writing about the Enneagram.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:00:57

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I will, uh, link it up. Um, final two questions that I ask everyone.

Dayo: 1:01:04

Okay,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:01:05

First, uh, tell me about a book that has helped you, refreshed you, or shaped you in the last year.

Dayo: 1:01:11

I'm a Kindle book reader, so I need to remember the title.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:01:15

Oh my gosh, it's so hard when you're reading on Kindle because you don't see the cover. So it's like, I read this cool book. I don't know what it's called.

Dayo: 1:01:23

The Perfectionist in Me really wanted to find a book that would help me understand men. Because if I'm going to be with someone, I need to understand them. So I could be, not the perfect partner, but like, close to what would be the most helpful. And so I started reading this book called, um, How Can I Get Through to You? Closing the Intimacy Gap Between Men and Women. And this book has been very hard to read. Very difficult to read because He's really good at the, the author is very good at having compassion for both men and women. And I think that we live in a generation where that doesn't have a lot of compassion for men. I've struggled with having compassion for men. And so this book really challenges challenges that and like really helps to understand the things that men go through in their life. Obviously, he's also, you know, understanding that women go through as well. Um, but Yeah, it's just a very eye opening book because I don't I'm not a man. I don't understand their experience. I know what's going on in their world. So this book gives me a good like glimpse. And he's also a therapist. So, um, the way that he approaches, um, the topics. It's from a very like, logical lens, which I appreciate. It's not so like, it's not very feelings based at all. Like, he's not a very like, like, woo woo person. He's very much like, this is the facts. I appreciate the facts being laid out for me in that way. So yeah, really, really good book. I recommend it to anyone who's like, struggling Like, if your natural deposition is not, like, like romantic, I guess that's the word. Like, I'm not a romantic person. I think the book kind of brings me back into my heart in a very profound way. So, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:03:00

Cool. I will definitely check that out. Um, and I like that. I think that it's so important to be compassionate to all humans. And some of them are different genders than

Dayo: 1:03:09

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:03:09

So yeah.

Dayo: 1:03:12

Yeah. They're still humans. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:03:16

Okay. Last question. Tell me a piece of advice that has really stuck with you.

Dayo: 1:03:21

This is a good one. I think I might have said it a little bit earlier. I think this is something that I was told by, like, my married friends. Of like obviously we all know that communication is key, but like there's something to be said about Even if something is obvious You can't if you have a need that want that you want to get met Rather than assuming the person is just going to automatically know what you need Because you know, it's quote unquote obvious to you like actually communicate and ask And risk the rejection that might come and then saying like I can't Um, I think that has been a really really helpful piece of advice that i've gotten very recently You That has put me in a, it's very difficult to do. It's very difficult for me to do, but I think it's, it's been helpful for sure. So yeah, just ask me for what I need. It's such an obvious thing, but I think it solves a lot of problems. I will say that.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:04:17

Yeah, absolutely. And I think to just recognizing, oh, we're even just Um, and I love

Dayo: 1:04:38

from like a social media, like being great, being grown up in the social media era, like, I don't know if you've heard the phrase, if he wanted to, he would. And how like unhelpful that phrase can be because like you just said like not everyone is coming from a context of like knowing how to do certain things and knowing how to take um pick up certain cues um so like me abandoning abandoning that piece of advice and actually taking on a more mature piece of advice of like no you actually have to open your mouth and be a mature adult and ask the things you need so

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:05:10

that. Way to go. Well, great. Thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so fun to chat and I can't wait to check out your book when it's out.

Dayo: 1:05:22

thank you for having me this has been fun

Steph Barron Hall: 1:05:24

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify