1:54

Hello and welcome to Enneagram in Real Life, the podcast where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in our daily lives. I'm your host, Stephanie Barron Hall, and on today's episode, we are once again hearing from Christina S. Wilcox. You might remember Christina from her episode earlier this spring, which was about her process discovering herself as a Type six. So she talks a little bit about the different types that she considered for a while, and even when she wrote her very first book, which is called Take Care of Your Type, she wrote about being a three. Um, and I think this is a really common. Path for sixes. Um, and many of the sixes that I know in my life and that I've worked with, have also struggled to really feel solid about their type. So very common thing to happen. But Christina shared a lot about her process with that and then also her experience, um, being diagnosed with OCD and anxiety and, her entire background with that. So if you are interested in that topic and you haven't heard much about it, go back and find the episode, I think it's called. Am I a six or is that my OCD? Today Christina is back to talk with us a little bit more about. Her new book, which is called Take Care of Your Friends, and a little bit about just what the concept of self-care is in general. So in this week's episode, we are talking about the nuanced differences between self-care and self pampering, focusing on how self-care often involves stepping out of emotional, relational, or physical comfort zones for personal growth. And so Christina gave us very practical. Self-care tips for each Enneagram type. and we talked a little bit about the process of writing her book. Now please note that this podcast episode was actually recorded last year because I was planning ahead for some future episodes and things got kind of jumbled and, and I didn't end up. Publishing it. So it was recorded last year, so her book is actually already out. So if you hear us talking about, oh, it's coming out this summer. It's already out so you can go grab it. And in fact, I just checked it out online and a couple of retailers had it for$6. So definitely go check it out. I definitely think it's worth it because I really like her books and her books are very giftable, so make sure to check those out. So a little bit more about Christina. Christina Wilcox is an author mental health advocate, Enneagram expert and creative. You may recognize her from her first book, take Care of Your Type and Enneagram Guide to Self-Care, or from her, one of her Instagram graphics. She is known for making really cute little illustrations In her Instagram posts, her new book is called Take Care of Your Friends, and it's a guide to caring for and supporting each Enneagram type. She hopes to continue to advance her understanding of the Enneagram while expanding her written work and online content into other mental health topics outside of personality typing systems. She currently resides in Denver, Colorado with her husband Noah and their puppy moose. When she's not writing or creating, you can find Christina indulging in cozy video games, books across every genre and quality time with friends and family. As always, I'll share all of her links and where you can find her book and everything like that in the show notes. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Christina S. Wilcox.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 5:11

Well, Christina, welcome back.

Christina Wilcox: 5:13

Thank you for having me back. I'm excited to just be back to hang and chat.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 5:20

I'm so excited to have you back as well because we have just been talking a little bit about books and writing and all these good things and your very first book was called Take Care of Your Type and you talked about how we can each take care of ourselves. And so I wanted to have you back on to talk about that a little bit.

Christina Wilcox: 5:40

Yeah, I really love the Enneagram for this purpose of self care that goes beyond just like, I don't know if I would even call it self care. It's like self pampering where you're taking a bath or you're, Have a face mask or you're getting a massage or which those things are taking care of yourself. But it's definitely more of like, not everyone has the ability to do those things all the time. Where I feel like self care, the lens I wrote it from in this book has to do with facing things too, that we're not comfortable with, but is actually taking better care of ourselves. Um, that level of. Stepping out of your emotional, relational, or physical comfort zone, um, for the betterment of yourself. and it's funny writing a book about it. Cause it's something as just a normal human being that I struggle to do so much. but yeah, I'm excited to talk about it and it's always, a concept I enjoy unpacking with people.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 6:48

Yeah. So what inspired you to write about this topic in particular?

Christina Wilcox: 6:55

Yeah, I. It definitely was a collaborative effort with, the publisher that I worked with at the time they wanted to write a self care Enneagram book or something along those lines, they just thought like, take care of your type sounded really good and they were looking for someone to author this idea. And when I was discussing it with them, I really. Wanted to kind of lean into that more unique perspective of what self care is and was. And as we were in conversation, I just, it became this dual project where I felt like I was writing from actual research that I had unintentionally done on my platform, just interacting with people all the time and hearing. How they don't take care of themselves or hearing what they struggle with in terms of self care or what they wish other people understood about them when people would give them self care advice and like why it's difficult for them. And so that really sparked a lot of inspiration for the narrative of the book, as well as being in relationships myself and friendships and familial relationships. There's a lot of stuff too that was from my own experience with each number, um, and my own experiences in general, um, writing from the perspective of my number. but yeah, it was a mix of being inspired by the twos and sevens or sixes, whoever that I'd interacted with in my life, no matter how close I was with them and almost like saying things that I wish I would have you. Had the courage to say, um, or just patterns I noticed in their behavior as it was like living out in front of me. Um, but then also just interacting with people. So I guess short answer would be just interacting with people and seeing how complicated and Difficult self care actually is, for every single number.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 9:10

Yeah. I mean, I think that that is a good distinction that you made earlier about self pampering versus self care, um, and how taking care of ourselves can be really challenging and it can be really stretching. And a lot of the stuff that we need to do is kind of uncomfortable. Um, and we don't. Like to do uncomfortable things, like most people don't enjoy that. Um, and so I'm curious if you have any things right now that are kind of saving your life in terms of self-care?

Christina Wilcox: 9:41

Oh gosh. That's a great question. one would be forcing myself to get outside every day. just with the sun being back, I am someone who quite literally is a leaf. And when the sun hits me, I am a new person. And I know that about myself, but because I work from home and, um, I can get very hyper focused or distracted or whatever, sometimes it's like, wait a second, I need to actually go outside, um, and leave my house and walk my dog. And so whether it is a walk with my dog or just, um, we have this tree in our front yard and I've been setting out, um, our little picnic blanket and like, taking a adult coloring book or my book to read or bullet journaling or something on the picnic blanket under the tree. And doing that literally for just an hour changes the entire scope of my day. And, um, I just right now on the weekends, especially make the priority to just do that for myself. but besides that, I think, bullet journaling is also one. that has been a huge help for me. I really fell out of my habit of just like planning things and reminding myself of when things are happening. Our life has been pretty chaotic the past year. So it's just been hard to keep up with everything. And I found myself actually just forcing myself to carve out time to do it so that I could. Like have more space in my brain and not be scattered all the time. And I don't do it perfectly, but it definitely isn't easy and it's not, um, comfortable for me all the time to do it. But, yeah, lastly, I actually just remembered this, something I've been. Telling myself a lot recently about things that I don't want to do for myself that would help, whether it's like hygiene related, chore related. mundane task related friendship. It doesn't matter what it is, but I've been telling myself to become better friends with my future self, because that means I'll look out for her a lot more often right now than I would if we weren't great friends. So sometimes when I'm like literally the last thing I want to do is this task, I take a moment to think of myself tomorrow, Or the next day or the next day. And I'm like, she would appreciate if I did this right now. Um, and that's been a fun little mind trick for me in terms of bullet journaling or sitting outside. That's more of the psychological self care trick I've been doing for myself and it has been a lifesaver. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 12:44

mean, I've read so many interesting little tidbits about that in different books, um, about how helpful it can be to think about things that way. I wanna do that more. I need to like write myself a note to do that because I forget, you know, but it is helpful,

Christina Wilcox: 12:59

It is helpful. And in the moment it like. I mean, sometimes it's not fun still. I still get annoyed at myself for even saying that to myself. Um, but then other times it actually makes the task less daunting or annoying. Cause it's like, Oh yeah, I got to look out for her. And that's, this is something simple I can do for her right now. And it's like, it almost takes the annoyance or not all of the discomfort sometimes, but it makes it worth it almost. It's like. It gives it an intention and a purpose just beyond like checking it off a list. Mm-hmm

Stephanie Barron Hall: 13:36

Yeah. Yeah. I could appreciate that for sure. Um, I'm curious. I mean, I want to dive into all, all nine types, but before we get there, I think we talked last time a little bit about your typing journey overall,

Christina Wilcox: 13:51

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 13:52

and I'm curious if you look at any of these now, especially for the type that you thought you were when you wrote this book. And the type that you know you are now, if you're like, hmm I would, I would actually write that differently now.

Christina Wilcox: 14:04

Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. The second I recorded the audio book stuff, I was like, I wish I had read this differently. Um,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 14:12

course. Yeah.

Christina Wilcox: 14:13

which just to any aspiring writers out there, don't wait to read things out loud. Just read things out loud as soon as you feel comfortable with it, because it helps to know if what you're saying makes sense. Um, I was so new to everything that I just didn't do that. But anyway, um, it is interesting. There's some aspects of, I think it might even be in the three chapter, cause that's where, that's the number I thought I was at the time. Okay. Um, but there was something I was like a situation that I was in that I wrote about in this book that I realized was a lot more OCD related than like, I just, when I was reading it after, I was like, this actually is more of an OCD behavior that I thought was a personality trait of mine, but it, in fact, And it's still like, when I read it, it still applies. And I think where I got to with it worked, but I definitely would do that differently. But even the six chapters, it's interesting. I feel like I've said this before, but when I read through the six chapters, it's like, I was writing this to myself without even knowing it. Which that's crazy. Cause I'm even looking at the titles. It's like every single one. I was writing it to myself fully, but just had no clue. No clue. But it's, it's more emotional, I think, now to read through the sixth chapter and be like, oh, I should probably apply some of this even to my own life. Mm-hmm

Stephanie Barron Hall: 16:02

Yeah. Well, isn't that how it always works though too? Because there is like this level. I don't know if you felt this way, but like, like imposter syndrome, like when I

Christina Wilcox: 16:12

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 16:14

writing my book and getting so burned out and being like, what am I doing? How can I be telling people to, to, you know, use the Enneagram in real life? And like, here I am getting so burned out. And like, that can be really, that can really trip you up. And also I would love to see somebody who can write a book and not get burned out at some point. I

Christina Wilcox: 16:36

Oh, I, I mean, I guess the only person I that immediately came to my head was Brandon Sanderson, just because I've seen interviews of him and he's just like a machine. Truly.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 16:49

think though that fiction is so much easier,

Christina Wilcox: 16:52

Yeah. I, I don't know if it's easier. I think it's just because specifically with what we're writing about, it's so, you want to write it in a unique way, but you have to stay true to the system. You're in a really confined box where I think, like you said, fiction, you have the whole world almost, even if you're writing about an era or a character, it can evolve,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 17:17

Yeah, I definitely would. I mean, it's not easier. I shouldn't say that, but like, I probably think that a little bit because that is my like, release valve. Like when I am stuck in my actual books that I'm writing and turning into my publisher, I just write fiction

Christina Wilcox: 17:36

yeah, uh huh.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 17:38

you know, and it helps, it really helps. And so I could imagine, but I mean, to be as prolific as he is, you have to love it. Um,

Christina Wilcox: 17:46

Yeah, it's crazy. I was watching a video of his writing routine and I just was like, oh my god, I can't watch this. It's too much for me. I'm not Brandon Sanderson, unfortunately. Unfortunately, I am not Brandon Sanderson. He like writes from him. 2 a. m. to 6 a. m. It's crazy, but he's also Brandon Sanderson and can make his own schedule. So

Stephanie Barron Hall: 18:14

Yeah, yeah.

Christina Wilcox: 18:15

he can do what works for him.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 18:18

So there's that. Right. Um, well, I'm curious if, you know, this, I think this is like kind of a good way to jump into the next part, which is I'd love to just run through each of the types. And if you can give us a practical thing, each type can do to incorporate self care in the way that you understand it.

Christina Wilcox: 18:35

hmm. Yeah. I kind of went through the book and I found like a more, like an actual physical tip each type can do. And then also just like a quick little more emo tip, um, of like self care for your emotions that might be hard, but necessary. Um, and starting, I guess, with type one, one thing that I, when I was writing this book, I really felt is so difficult for type ones is this idea of, Taking themselves out of the running. Whenever I interact with ones, it feels like they have put themselves in the running, not just of perfection, but of so many different things that they need to be perfect at, or have a standard of like my, I have some friends that like, they're very concerned about being a good employee and a good spouse and which we all are, but there's this. They're carrying the weight of the world as they are in the running for these things and they, it's like the responsibility of it all is they're single handedly putting it on their shoulders. And in the book, that's something that I talk about as more of a emotional care tip is what would it look like to take yourself out of the running for these standards or goals, or even just the concept of goodness and perfection itself? Um, what really would happen, um, if you were to take a break from the marathon and sit with Just sit with that. And I think that's not to say that you shouldn't be in the running for anything. I think that we all need something to drive us and to work towards, but it's just this idea of, even if it's taking yourself out of the running to release the pressure of the entire world and feeling responsible for like the goodness of yourself and the people you're around. I think that that's a really good emotional exercise for ones as well as, a more practical tip that I always love to suggest to ones is, celebrate something really small, celebrate nothing at all, like throw a party for yourself and your spouse or your partner or a friend and just celebrate for literally no reason, and just not just see what comes up for yourself, but I just think it's such a, a fun. And when I say party, I don't mean go on Pinterest and make a board and make this elaborate thing to where all of a sudden you're in your own head about it. It has to be the perfect celebration for nothing party. I just mean like getting a treat and celebrating a really small win that you're proud of, or just celebrating the fact that you had a great day. Another day and just introducing that, um, concept of more, less criticism and more celebration.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 22:02

like spiraling in my mind, like, what's a small thing to celebrate? Like, is that, is that enough?

Christina Wilcox: 22:08

I know. It's like, there's no, and that's the hard part ones. There is no right answer. Unfortunately, it is a very nuanced, a nuanced thing,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 22:20

yeah, I love that.

Christina Wilcox: 22:21

guys. Um, for twos, my two little tips are first starting more with a physical one. I think it's really important for twos to obviously being safe, but being in nature alone. I think taking, which sounds nightmarish perhaps, which is kind of the point. Um, I think it's really important for twos to connect to things outside of their relationships, whether it's themself or nature in general, or whatever you believe in, just taking space to connect to something that isn't. in the orbit of the relationships you're caring for. I think the quietness of course will bring up some emotions for twos, but I think that's important for so many twos struggle with distinguishing their emotions from the emotions they're carrying for others. And I think spending time in nature, getting quiet allows you to discern how you actually feel and not just how you feel like you should feel or, maybe even thinking through a little bit how you're feeling and not just being fully in that heart space. But in a more sentimental emo direction, I think it would be very sweet. Because at least for everyone that I've known, everyone has received a love letter from a two, whether you're friends with a two, your partner is a two, your parent is a two. I just feel like every two I've ever known has given me a card or a letter that I cherish a lot. And my challenge for twos is to write a love letter to yourself, even if it sounds corny. Even if you put it in the mail to deliver to yourself, even whatever, I don't know how corny you want to make it, but whatever you need to do, or just, I just envision them sitting somewhere that they love to sit at their favorite coffee shop or wherever, and just actually writing, taking the time to think about putting that energy you put towards others, towards yourself. yeah, I know you're gonna make yourself cry with that one too, uh, and you should, you should, like, I, I don't know, just every card I've received from a two has been so special and I would love for them to receive that in the, in their own language that they really like can cherish it.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 25:05

yeah, well, and I think, Twos can be a lot more self critical than we normally think about or

Christina Wilcox: 25:11

Oh yeah. Mm hmm.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 25:13

and so I think that that can be helpful, too, because just recognizing, wow, I am being really hard on myself, and, kind of setting that aside and, and really sitting down and, like, being kind to themselves is

Christina Wilcox: 25:25

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Um, for threes, my two self care tips would be one enforcing a digital sunset and sunrise. Very practical. And what I mean by that is setting a timeline limit to like, say 8 AM is your digital sunrise. You can turn on your devices and be on your phone, be working, whatever you need to do. Obviously I'm saying this knowing the complexities of life and not all of these tips are going to be applicable or available to everyone's season. But if you can, enforcing that sunrise and sunset, turning off your device at 8pm, like 8 to 8 or 7 to 7, whatever it needs to be, 7 to 9, you know, starting off small at first, but I think for threes. I can't even imagine a three working from home, how difficult it can be to set those boundaries with yourself. Um, not just in a workaholic sense, but in a, threes are also managing so much. They have so many moving parts to their lives typically. And I think giving your brain the space and your heart the space to. Be thinking about checking in with yourself, your body, how you're feeling actually, and giving yourself some limits to, how hard you're working. Regardless of what you're working at or caring for. I think that's a really, I've seen a lot of threes enforce that type of practice in their lives, and it's something that they're very grateful for. Um, even if it's hard. and with that, I also want to challenge, I love what you said about how, when you're writing your books, you take a break to write fiction for fun, and that's, that literally is basically the tip I had is find things that are for fun only, truly only for fun. No other thing. No, it's not even to succeed or fail. It's not that black and white. It is truly just. For fun, something that you enjoy that you can put your time into where your performance isn't the end goal or purpose of what you're doing.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 28:04

Yeah, yeah. I think that's so important, and, and And it can be difficult because,

Christina Wilcox: 28:09

Oh yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 28:10

like recently I had a friend be like, Oh, are you musical? And I was like, Oh no. Like, they're like, Oh, I thought you play guitar. I was like, Oh yeah, but no one would ever pay me to play. Like,

Christina Wilcox: 28:21

Oh my gosh.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 28:22

ever want. And they're like, that's not the bar. You know, cause I'm really, I just do it for

Christina Wilcox: 28:28

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 28:29

and I never want anyone to actually hear me.

Christina Wilcox: 28:31

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 28:33

Um, and actually I think that's like a, maybe, maybe a good, and it's a little bit embarrassing to even say it on the podcast,

Christina Wilcox: 28:40

No, don't be, I will, you know, I think it's a hard thing for threes to admit. And I did this. Real a really long time ago, but whenever it comes up, it still makes me laugh of like, it was this sound that's like, let's see what's behind this door. And then like, it gets slams shut immediately. And I put threes having to do something new for the first time in front of people in general, like that they don't know or like whatever. And it's just, it really is. It's so hard with the, all the heart triad, the self consciousness. I think it's so real. But yeah, I love 2024 year of threes doing things for fun.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 29:23

Yeah. I love it. Um, and I think. An important thing too, like an addendum to your, your first point is I think it's really important for threes to also recognize how much they think about work. They might say, Oh, I'm not working, but you're working in your brain.

Christina Wilcox: 29:41

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 29:42

Like, even if you're not quote unquote, being productive by like having some sort of output, you're still thinking about it constantly. And that can really weigh on you as well.

Christina Wilcox: 29:54

that's so true. That is so true. We love you, Therese. Truly. I, that's my stress number, and so I also struggle with these things when I get very stressed. for fours, this one, this first one's actually so practical, but every time I bring it up with fours, they are like, ugh. And that's the response I want from you, so that's good. But, um, y'all need to start getting healthy sleep. Whatever that sleep is looking like, whether you only need 6 hours or 7 hours, it doesn't have to be 8 or 9, but y'all need to go to sleep. Every 4 I know has the most messed up sleep schedule. It doesn't matter who they are or what stage they are in their life. It is I just think some of y'all would really feel better getting an optimal amount of sleep, if it is possible this season, because whether it's fours that I know where in different situations, it's like they're feeling so much that they have like numbed out with music or a show, or And then they wake up on the couch at like 3 a. m. or whatever it is, or just like being so into the weather. And I think four is too similarly to threes, whether it doesn't necessarily have to be a creative field, but fours are also constantly thinking about their feelings. And that also can keep them up at night. And so I don't know exactly what you specifically, if you're a four listening to this, need to do to get optimal sleep. But I can, as someone who didn't realize how poorly they were sleeping, and then once I attempted to fix that, it really changed my life. I think specifically with fours, they would be surprised at how much, and it could even be oversleeping, whatever it is that you're struggling with, I think. Working to have a healthy sleep schedule is really important for fours. and with that too, similarly to ones celebrating, as opposed to criticism, fours also really struggle with the, as we know, their core fear of lacking something essential that everyone else has or has figured out, and, um, I want to encourage fours to really start practicing gratitude as opposed to comparison. I think that is something that's very difficult for fours to do. Um, which sometimes when I talk to fours about that, they're like, I'm very grateful and appreciative. And I think fours are wonderful at being in awe and leaning into wonder and beauty where Gratitude is very gritty and uncomfortable sometimes and it's not, it's choosing to change up that thought pattern as I'm lacking from this person or I'm less than this person or whatever it is and finding gratitude for yourself and even for the other person of like, wow, they're really doing a good job because That doesn't threaten who you are. It's just like that mindset of abundance versus scarcity. And, yeah, I think that incorporating gratitude in junction, in conjunction with your awe and wonder for life, I think is really important.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 33:51

Yeah. That's such a good point about gratitude being kind of gritty because I think that can be challenging for fours. Like they think, Oh, I should be better at this. Like if I was truly grateful, I would be better at this. And it's like definitely a skill that you have to learn for sure. Um, but also I think the scarcity point is a good one too, because I think sometimes Even if fours are such like incredible outside the box thinkers, but sometimes I do think that fours believe there's only a finite amount of like emotion that can go around. Um, and I think that's where that comparison comes in. And so there's like a finite amount of positivity that can go around as well. And that can be really tough.

Christina Wilcox: 34:40

Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. five, hello fives, we love you, um, I love you, you are my wing, something for fives, two things, one is, these are gonna sound so basic, but it's, They're basic for a reason and they're really hard for a reason. But I know that there is a five out there who has everything they need to take their first action step in whatever projects they're working on in whatever thing that they're trying to accomplish. Let me be the voice to say, you have enough, you have enough, and it is time Do the first step. I can guarantee you already have the steps lined out that you need the order. You need to do it in maybe, but if not, like it's, cause I struggle with this with my wing five, sometimes the act of planning it is like, it feels like I'm doing it sometimes and then I research, yes, it feels like action, but that researching and that planning isn't actually taking a step forward. And, I just want to encourage Fives that you have everything you need. It is going to be, I think for Fives, something that even with this new book, as I was researching things and leaning into my own five way and understanding it, I think, I don't think people understand how difficult it is for Fives to feel uncomfortable. it is one of the worst feelings in the world, feeling uncomfortable and not Knowing, not having a head thought solution to the uncomfortability, not being able to figure it out almost, is really difficult. but I have found the times in my life when I've gotten out of my head into my body, taken that first action step. It feels, even if it's like pulling teeth, it, I've never feel more alive than when I actually take that action step. And once you get going, you get going. And similarly to that, it's like, once that ball is rolling, you can, you can keep going. Um, which that kind of leans into the other tip is, um, in whatever way you need to go about it. If it's little by little, But making yourself available. And I don't mean that in a way that I think all fives are like isolated hobbits in cabins that don't interact with people. I think fives, um, are really wonderful friends and partners and more community oriented than people realize. But what I mean by available is. Making your emotions available, your time available, your energy available, even if it's just a little more than you usually would, because it really isn't about the other person. Um, it's about fearing that they will be, cause I experienced this, the fear of literally not being able to handle the rest of the day or the rest of these conversations. And it's like measuring out your energy constantly. And I think there is this level of being able to trust yourself that you do have what you need to be available. Um,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:36

Yeah.

Christina Wilcox: 38:37

yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:39

Yeah. And I think, um, also something for fives that can be challenging. I've noticed is having a difficult time navigating those boundaries in real time. It feels much

Christina Wilcox: 38:48

Mm hmm.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:48

just say no, then to be able to again, trust yourself to be able to like, work through that

Christina Wilcox: 38:54

Yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 38:55

time comes. Um, with. What you were saying about being uncomfortable, I'm wondering, is there like a physical manifestation of that, or like,

Christina Wilcox: 39:04

Yeah, I,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:06

mean? Ha

Christina Wilcox: 39:07

I, another tip I actually had for fives in the book was about having a dance party, which is very corny, I realize. How old was I when I wrote this book? 22. So a 22 year old wrote this book, which is crazy. Um,

Stephanie Barron Hall: 39:27

yeah, it actually is.

Christina Wilcox: 39:30

she, she had her, she had her nuggets of wisdom. and I actually got a lot of messages from fives after they read that. And they were like, I've never had anyone tell me that before, but it's just the idea of. I think fives feel uncomfortable, don't like feeling uncomfortable in their body. They don't like feeling uncomfortable in their house. They don't like feeling uncomfortable and it's like, well, yeah, no one does, but I can't express like the physical way it even feels to be doing something physical in the way uncomfortability like makes me feel. And one of my good friends is also a five and it's. It's hard, but the times where she, and it doesn't have to be a dance party for her, she loves hiking or whatever, but it's just this act of getting in your body and feeling uncomfortable and being able to show yourself you can survive the uncomfortability, that that comfortability doesn't go away, it will return. I don't know if that makes sense, but that's what comes to mind.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 40:48

I guess like, where I'm curious is like, is it a cognitive experience that manifests physically? Like, I don't know what to do here, I don't know who to talk to here, like, or

Christina Wilcox: 40:58

Yeah. I think, I think it's a mix of both. Um, but I definitely think the head portion of feeling uncomfortable is, does manifest physically, at least in my experience in the fives that I know. It's almost just like the same thing. It's like with a project. We will. Might have all the steps, everything we need laid out, even for a social situation, knowing that I probably can do this, but it's this, it's the, I think fives are a lot more fearful. Um, and sevens, I think all of the, obviously all of the head types struggle with fear, but I think we just leaned into fear so much with six. Um, that we forget the fives and sevens are terrified.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 41:51

Yeah,

Christina Wilcox: 41:52

And I think that's more of how for fives, the fear manifests. It's more just even the fear of not knowing what to do. The, the fear of that uncomfortability in situations, how it gets caught in their head. Um, I do think it manifests physically and can. Yeah, it's hard. Like I said, for the fives, taking action and being available is hard. It's very hard, but it's just like anything, you build up resilience with practice.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 42:29

absolutely. And you learn to trust yourself.

Christina Wilcox: 42:32

Oh yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 42:34

Okay, what about six?

Christina Wilcox: 42:35

Yeah, speaking of trusting yourself, Hey guys! Um, My first tip for six is something that I feel like if you go back and watch, even I was thinking about this when I wrote this in my phone, if you even watch our conversations, I feel like people might even pick up on this first one with me and things that I do. Um, please don't tell me that you know this. I am aware that this is something I struggle with, but one of my favorite tips I gave for six, which is very much directed at me as well is laughing really hard but not at yourself. Sixes are some of the most self deprecating people that you will ever meet and they can have you cracking up but most likely sometimes it is over themselves or their own irrationality or their own just like, it really is a defense mechanism. And I want to encourage sixes that you don't have to be the butt of a joke, um, for things to be funny. I think, I don't know why this, I've noticed this so much with sixes, not just for me, but my mom is a six. There's so many people in my life and it is just a common thread. And maybe because I'm wrapped up in it, I don't have as much like a 30, 000 foot view of exactly where it comes from, but it is this, I think it still is related to the idea of trusting yourself and building that friendship with yourself, um, respecting yourself and seeing yourself as someone who, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. It's like. It's almost like sixes don't want to be blindsided by anything, that they like, step forward in front of someone to be like, I already know this though, so you don't need to tell me about it. And it is pain avoidance. It is still again, and something that probably would be more associated with the seven, but I notice it so much in myself where it's like, fear is so well acquainted with pain and I don't want to experience either of those things. So I will make fun of myself so I don't have to feel the pain of you doing it to me, if that's what you're going to do. Um, and so I want to encourage sexes to. Laugh less at yourself. You don't have to, if someone teases you, or if you don't get ahead of a joke, what, uh, you know, like you similarly to fives, like you can handle it. You can handle it. You can trust yourself. You can feel that security still within yourself. Um, and similarly as well, I think it's very important for sixes to get in their body. Um, in my experience of being a six, sometimes whenever I do force myself to do something that is very physically hard or even just having a normal exercise regimen of any kind, it helps me become more connected to my real emotions and not my intellectualized emotions. And I think sixes need their body to help them get to their, what's going on in their heart, at least from what I've seen and in my own experience. It's like, even the other day I felt so, this has never happened to me before, but I literally was doing this yoga video and we did this pose and I literally started crying.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 46:36

Mm

Christina Wilcox: 46:37

Because I, my brain had stopped long enough for my body to be like, Hey, this is what you're feeling.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 46:46

hmm. Mm hmm.

Christina Wilcox: 46:47

Remember? Like, I think six is just really are afraid of, I think they are just as afraid of emotions as sevens, even if they come across as more emotional or sensitive, but the actual fear of. There's just so much unknown in emotion that it can keep us from that alone keeps me from letting myself experience it. So I think sometimes exercise or some sort of physical activity where you're taking a break from your brain allows you to connect with that.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 47:29

Yeah, yeah. I've seen that be really helpful for sixes. I also, on the self deprecating humor thing, I've also always wondered, and you can tell me if this resonates at all, um, if it's like, Hey, haha, I know I'm doing the everything is so scary thing again, but I feel like I have to say this, so I'm just going to say it with a joke because like, it needs to be said. Like, I know I'm doing the thing, but you know,

Christina Wilcox: 47:55

Yeah. I think it's this Sixes really want to be taken seriously with their concerns. And I think sometimes I'm definitely guilty of it. A passive roundabout way of doing that is to make it a joke so that people hear it. Because sometimes if you are communicating something that is, you think is important or concerning, Um, it isn't always taken seriously. So I think, yeah, I think that definitely is real of being like, maybe if this is a joke, you're at least gonna, but that's not like a conscious thing I'm thinking about as it's happening, but I definitely, yeah, I think that's real for sixes with sevens. I want to encourage you guys to, and I'm going to keep saying it, some of these I've said multiple times because every time specifically with sevens, they get very mad at me for suggesting it. And it's just because y'all need to trust, trust that this is a good thing. Um, but sevens do need that practice of getting quiet in some capacity every day. Where they are unbothered, there is no distraction, whether that's, if you pray, a type of prayer ritual in the morning, or meditative ritual, or just sitting, even if it's only for two minutes in the morning, making space to be quiet. I can promise you that a lot of the pushback with this from sevens that I hear is that, So much comes up. It's just too much. I can't handle it. And it is a lot because there's a lot that you have suppressed. So it's coming up like a crashing tidal wave where the more you get quiet and the more you practice being in tune, that wave will become smaller and smaller and smaller. And I also want to remind you that you, you won't die. I think that's a real thing though, with the set, one of my closest friends, she's a seven and it's a, it feels like you're dying sometimes. And I just want to say that you can handle it. You won't die. It will be hard, but you won't die. And in that vein, something that now having more. A closer relationship with a seven. Um, I have a really close friend who is a seven. It is so apparent how much their behavior truly is motivated by that desire to be taken care of. Not just fulfilled, not just to be free, but taken care of. And, it's ironic because so many sevens also don't ask for help always. Really never. Um, And so, anytime my friend asks for help, I always make note of how, well one, as her friend, which I guess this is just another fun little tip, but, I try and step in and help without her even asking sometimes. And in, at the end, she's like, I'm, I'm really grateful that you came here because I did need help. I just didn't know what to do or how to ask for that because I feel like I should be able to handle this by myself and. I think that for sevens accepting help, learning how to ask for help, or even just ask, like learning how to voice when you're not okay with trusted people, um, is really valuable for sevens, um, which is a very, yeah, I've just seen so many sevens be transformed by people knowing them deeply, even if it's hard. Mm

Stephanie Barron Hall: 52:22

Yeah.

Christina Wilcox: 52:23

hmm. With eights, um, something that I believe eights, when they can become very flexible, they are very empowered people, even more than they already are. But it's like when an eight is flexible, it just feels like, I don't know how to describe it. It's just one of the most beautiful, like, character growth. Tracks I've witnessed in AIDS and that's the, one of the self care tips I have for them is getting flexible and whatever way you need to practice flexibility, whether that's in a big way or small way, allowing someone else to take the lead. or even if it is something like, I know it's really also love their physical activity. It's very helpful for them. using physical activity as a way to slow it down, whether that's incorporating yoga or Pilates or more low impact exercise to become more. I think that would be a great first step to yeah. Building resilience to allow someone else to step up or be strong where you feel like you need to fill that role. and then with that. being intentionally unproductive, and similarly to sevens, carving out that time for quiet. I know eights also do not enjoy that, and specifically if it feels like, but what, what is the, I'm not doing anything. I think eights just have so much going on in their body. As opposed to some of the other types that we've talked about. literally, even if you need to schedule a time where you are intentionally unproductive, I think AIDS have such a beautiful capacity for rest. Um, AIDS that I know that can be restful, I'm telling y'all, like, you guys can take a good nap. Like, I've seen some AIDS rock a nap. So whatever you need to do, I think Y'all need, not to sound corny again, but go in your bear cave, go in your bear cave, take a big bear nap. Truly, whatever you need to do to make that happen. I just see eights. It's just rest. We all need rest and there's no way to get around it. Even if you aren't eight, you just have to make that time to do that. Yay.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 55:14

I think, um, the eights in my life that I'm around the most are really good at this. And I think that it really does help them. And so, um, it's hard for me to remember sometimes that, like, not every eight is like

Christina Wilcox: 55:28

Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. That's awesome though. I know it's the, especially in my childhood, a lot of my close friends were AIDs and whenever they did, as they got older or understood these types of things about themselves, it was like seeing them incorporate it. It's just a well rested AID is such a beautiful thing to witness. Lastly, we have our sweet nines. the first tip I have for you is practicing voicing your preferences. And if the first step you need to take in order to do that is journaling, what are my preferences? Even if you just write that question in a journal or your notes app, and you slowly make your way. As you notice things, maybe even just notice what your preferences are for the purpose of one day voicing them. But whatever you need to do to get there, I think is so important because it, one, is teaching you that your preferences matter and that you have them too. I think nines sometimes are so asleep to their preferences. It's like, but I just don't have any really. I don't. And I promise that you do if you listen. And I think too, there's this fear of my preferences will lead to disconnection. And so if there is a trusted person in your life, as you're going through this journey that you can share slowly with, um, I think you'll see how much capacity other people have for your preferences and may even. may even really want to hear your preferences and feel closer to you because you voiced your preferences. And lastly, I believe every nine truly does need do not disturb time. I think it's very important for them. However, I do believe nines have to learn how to limit that do not disturb time. It still needs to happen. But there has to be an awareness of how long you're in do not disturb mode. similarly, I think to fives, the theme of making yourself available. I think with nines, they make themselves very available, but they're not present. So it's like they're there, but they're not there. It's, it really is kind of like having your phone and do not disturb mode where it's like, yeah, I'm here. But you're not going to, nines are so stubborn. They're so stubborn. So

Stephanie Barron Hall: 58:23

Sounds like you know from experience.

Christina Wilcox: 58:25

yes, I do know from experience, I know how stubborn nines are. but again, it's not. You guys need your rest, and I know that. I know from real experience, both fives and nines really need that recharge time, so you definitely need to carve out time for being on Do Not Disturb, but just start to create limits for that time, because at some point, being in that mode no longer serves you or the people in your life. And it's hard to accept that. And it's hard to feel that. I'm so aware of it for nines, how much feeling like any type of disruption or inconvenience is because of them. That alone could put them in a do not disturb mode. So I think it's just a challenge of almost. Giving yourself rest, but letting yourself be disturbed, for lack of a better word, sometimes.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 59:33

So you're kind of saying, like, choose to be in that mode sometimes, but don't passively drift there

Christina Wilcox: 59:41

Yeah, don't live there. Um, I think sometimes we all kind of enter that do not disturb mode and need it to survive. Like, we have that ability for a reason. But I think with both four nines as well, it's like, Physically and practically, I think sometimes they can. As much as they're available, they also can really retreat and just knowing, being aware of that cycle of, am I, how much am I really retreating? How much am I really resting? I think that that's important, but yeah, I think nine's the reality that again, that they could. play a part in any type of conflict or chaos or disruption is so horrific genuinely to them that they do passively just slip into that do not disturb mode because that's how they're managing. so yeah, it's a, it's self care that is a challenge, but once you learn how to stay activated during that time, The, I think the chaos in the conflict or whatever's going on will actually lessen more than if you stay in, do not disturb mode for extended amounts of time.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:01:06

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think something I just wanna specify too about nines being stubborn is that I think it's important to appreciate also that like, I like, I like that nines can be stubborn. Of course it's annoying when you're like, you have somebody in your life that you're trying to communicate with and they're being stubborn about stuff, but like, I actually appreciate it because. It's a time when you get to see what they really think about something and how they really feel about something. Maybe they're not communicating it, you know, but they're like, maybe that it's not always verbally being stubborn. Um, but I really appreciate when nines share how they feel and, and are really clear on that. Um, because I know that it takes a lot. and I know that, It's not always a choice to be stubborn, um, but there's something in them that's like, this doesn't feel aligned and I just can't do it. Um, and so I appreciate that.

Christina Wilcox: 1:02:01

of course. I think that that's such a good. Friendship tip, even with nine. So you're in a relationship is be curious about their stubbornness of like, with the first part of voicing their preferences, what can as someone, if you're in a friendship or relationship with a nine in any capacity, what can you learn about them through what they're stubborn about? Cause that is so true. You do get a glimpse into how a nine is really feeling. That's really great.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:02:31

Yeah. Yeah. great. This has been so.

Christina Wilcox: 1:02:34

was a marathon.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:02:36

It was, I mean, I think that sometimes I kick myself cause I'm like, why did I choose to teach this thing that has nine

Christina Wilcox: 1:02:43

I know.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:02:43

separate times? But I think it's, it's so useful because there's something in there for everyone. And even as we're listening, I'm like, Oh yeah, this person in my life, I can help support them in that way. Um, and when I'm teaching people, I always like to remind them, like highlight the positives of other types and look at the positives of Versus like looking at all of their negatives, especially in corporate. I teach mostly in corporate and, um, I don't want people to feel like they need to be on guard at work. I think that's a pretty uncomfortable place for people. Um, but I think that looking at our own shortcomings is, is so useful. And so being able to speak to those in these really practical ways is helpful.

Christina Wilcox: 1:03:26

Yeah, definitely. That's so true.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:03:30

So where can people find you and your work? Uh, I want to link everything up, but you have a lot of exciting projects coming up and I really want to share those.

Christina Wilcox: 1:03:39

I do. Thank you. Yeah. You can find me primarily on Instagram at Christina S Wilcox. Um, I also have a podcast that I'm re launching very soon. probably June or July called genuinely care about you. and I'm really excited for that. Cause there's going to be a fun little series I do on there that I'm very excited about. in terms of friendship, which is also what my next book is about. it comes out July 30th on National Friendships Day, which is so cute. We were talking about that before we went live. Um, I thought, I just think it's so cute, but yeah, my second book is kind of a. Sort of a sequel ish to my first one. It's called take care of your friends. and it's just a using the Enneagram as a guide for your relationships and friendships specifically. And the chapters go in detail about how to be a better friend as your type, but also how others can be a better friend to you based on your type. And, yeah, I'm so excited for it. And. That's about, that's about, I'm trying to think. I think that's all of my, those would be all of my links.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:05:04

Great. Yeah, I'll link it all up in the show notes and so excited for you with this new book coming out. Of course, it's beautiful. I cannot wait to see the inside on all the illustrations and everything.

Christina Wilcox: 1:05:14

you.

Stephanie Barron Hall: 1:05:15

Um, so I'm looking forward to that and I hope everyone will check out your podcast as well. Um, yeah, thanks so much for joining me.

Christina Wilcox: 1:05:25

Thank you for having me again. I love, I love chatting and yeah, I'm just glad to be here.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:05:31

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on Spotify