Dr. Aditi Nerukar 1:47

And the real reason is because we have just gone through since 2020 and every year since this. Rise in collective trauma, an onslaught, one after the other of some calamity of some sort externally that is affecting us. And then we're just trying to cope with it in our brains and bodies were designed to handle short bursts of stress. We do that really well. Our biology of stress is built for that with the fight or flight response, which we can talk a little bit about, but we have experienced instead of that acute, you know, once in a while stress over the past few years, we've had chronic. ongoing stress with a shifting finish line. And when your brain and body continue to have to adapt or are forced to deal with that ongoing chronic stress, that is when burnout can really set in.

Samson Q2U Microphone & Golden Delicious 3-2 2:45

Hello, and welcome to Enneagram in real life, a podcast where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in our daily lives. I'm your host Steph Barron hall. And on today's episode, I have. A really fantastic. Interview with Dr. A D T. The root car. So we're going to be talking about her brand new book, which is called the five resets, rewire your brain and body for less stress and more resilience. and when I met her, I told her, I felt like that title was so helpful. And it also told me it's the perfect book for me to read. I think I've, I've noticed in my own life. And then a lot of the people around me have experienced a lot of burnout in the last year and a lot more, um, stress. We had a few years of things being extra stressful, and maybe there was a lot of adrenaline pushing through our systems or something and, and forcing us to, um, just like work harder, buckle down and figure things out, be in survival mode. And then this last year, a lot of that kind of fell apart. And so I know for me, um, I struggled with a lot of burnout in the last year and so many people around me have as well. So I love Dr. DTS. Really practical and helpful, useful tips for us. So even if you don't go run out and get the book, which I definitely think you should, because I also am doing so. But even if you don't do that, I think you'll still take away some really helpful insights. From this episode. So we're not specifically talking about the Enneagram though. We did chat about it a little bit before we started recording. But we are talking about some of the other useful things. Like what I call the, any adjacent things, the things around. Us that can help us with our self development, help us support ourselves in a better way. So in this episode, we're talking more about mental health and self-develop development and things like that, um, versus, you know, the specific type biology, But all of it works together in my perspective. So that's why I wanted to have Dr. D T joined me. So I want to share a little bit more about her and her bio. I think really blew me away. But what also blew me away about talking with her is how warm and genuine and genuinely just a kind caring person she is. And so she brings a lot of that, uh, research and analytical mind that you'll hear a little bit more about in this bio. Um, as well as just being such a kind and warm and loving person in general. So Dr. A D T neuro car is a Harvard physician nationally recognized stress expert and author. She's also an in demand, multimedia personality, high profile medical correspondent. Internationally renowned a fortune 50 speaker and podcaster. Dr. DT has been featured in the wall street journal, the Washington post Oprah magazine, architectural digest and Elle. She has been a columnist for Forbes and has written for the Atlantic and she's made more than 300 appearances as a medical commentator on MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS news. And she's also spoken at various summits and conferences worldwide. But Dr. Brunner car's expertise on stress comes from working with thousands of patients through her years as a primary care physician and director of an integrative medicine program at Harvard Beth Israel, Deaconess medical center. She is now a lecturer at Harvard medical school and the division of global health and social medicine. And serves as the co-director of the clinical clerkship in community engagement. So she has all of these varied experiences. And let me tell you, there's actually more to her bio that I didn't. Read out. But. She just kind of summing all of the most practical and kind of most poignant pieces of that up in her new book. And so she gives us the high points today in this podcast episode. So, um, I hope you really enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed creating it and talking with Dr. Aditi. So without further ado, here's our conversation and make sure to check out her full bio. The link to buy her book, her social media handle her website, all that stuff. It's in the show notes as usual and enjoy.

Steph Barron Hall 6:36

Well, Dr. Aditi Nehrukar, welcome to the podcast. Of

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 6:39

Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here with you today. Thanks for having me.

Steph Barron Hall 6:43

course. I'm so excited to talk about your new book that is coming out. Um, it's coming out, actually.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 6:52

It is January, January 16, 2024.

Steph Barron Hall 6:57

Great. Uh, so the five resets rewire your brain and body for less stress and more resilience. And I have to say when I saw that title, it just caught my attention because I'm like, yes, I need this book.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 7:11

It's true. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback about that title. It is truly a title from my heart because I like to say it's my love letter to those suffering from stress and burnout, which is essentially. every single person right now. We know that stress and burnout are at unprecedented levels in every country, across every industry. And at least 70 percent of people have at least one feature of stress and burnout. So if you are feeling this way, the fact that that book caught your eye, it's no surprise because you are not alone. Many, many people more than. The norm are feeling the way you are with stress and burnout at unprecedented levels in our lives. So thanks for having me.

Steph Barron Hall 7:57

Yeah, of course. I mean, I have to say people who listen to this podcast often know that my specific Enneagram type is one that is prone to cycles of burnout, which has. It's very much been a story for me, but earlier this year, I went through a really intense season of burnout and I was just so surprised I could never imagine that I would be able to, or that I would not be able to work, you know, maybe able to work like a couple hours a day only. Was really surprising to me how impactful that was on my life.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 8:30

Right. And it's probably because you bought in to the resilience myth, the myth that we are all taught from a very young age. I talk about this in the early chapters of my book, and it's this idea that resilient people don't get burned out. So the fact that you were surprised by your burnout is a really. Good indicator and a nice tell of what we have all been feeling is that, Oh, how can I get burned out? But I'm resilient. I thought I was resilient. I can't get burned out. And the truth based on the science is that you can be resilient and still experience burnout. In fact, 30 percent of the most resilient people in the workforce still experienced burnout in one study, which goes to show that resilience, while it's important and somewhat protective, it is not enough to prevent burnout. And the real reason is because we have just gone through since 2020 and every year since this. Rise in collective trauma, an onslaught, one after the other of some calamity of some sort externally that is affecting us. And then we're just trying to cope with it in our brains and bodies were designed to handle short bursts of stress. We do that really well. Our biology of stress is built for that with the fight or flight response, which we can talk a little bit about, but we have experienced instead of that acute, you know, once in a while stress over the past few years, we've had chronic. ongoing stress with a shifting finish line. And when your brain and body continue to have to adapt or are forced to deal with that ongoing chronic stress, that is when burnout can really set in. So if you are feeling burnout, I think my biggest message is that you are not alone and it is not your fault.

Steph Barron Hall 10:22

That's so helpful to hear, because I think as somebody who constantly tries to push through in those early moments of burnout, I was like, Nope, just keep going, just, you know, put your, and guess what? That did not work.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 10:37

Surprise, surprise, you know, often we need to look at ourselves through the same lens of self compassion and give ourselves the same grace that we would give to others, um, in many ways, that sense of, you know, the resilience myth really rears, it's ugly head when we say just push through it's mind over matter at all costs. In fact, it's a new way of looking at resilience, what I call toxic resilience. If you think about that word, you know. When you heard it like early 2020, lots of positive connotations. It meant, you know, truly what it is meant to mean, which is it's our innate biological ability to adapt and recover and grow in the face of challenges. However. That word was really taken on by hustle culture and it has morphed. It now almost resembles toxic resilience. It's that mind over matter mindset, productivity at all costs, and really not listening to your human limitations. Whereas true resilience. So that was like toxic. That is toxic resilience. Whereas true resilience honors our human limitations, respects our boundaries, celebrates our ability to say no. And really leans in and embraces this idea of self compassion because ultimately we are human beings, not human doings, and our brains and our bodies, while designed to adapt to tremendous amounts of acute stress, do need a period of rest and recovery. In between those stresses, which we haven't gotten, so it's no wonder that you are feeling this way. I have certainly felt that way, even though I know the science of all of this, it still doesn't, you know, protect you from experiencing burnout. And it really, what does protect you over the long term, if you are feeling burnout is naming it. So understanding what burnout is, because. What it looks like is really different than it was. And we can talk a little bit about the changing face of burnout. And then when you put a lot of the strategies that I have laid out in the five resets that I've taught to patients over the years that I've, you know, shared with various audiences, my speaking audiences, then you can reverse burnout. And the good news is that whether you're feeling stressed or burnout right now, there are. Concrete, tangible, practical, easy and free things that you can do today to build these things into your life. They are part of the five mindset shifts, but there are 15 strategies that I lay out in the book and they can slowly and incrementally over time work with your biology rather than against it to slowly reverse your burnout. But it doesn't happen overnight, but it can happen. And you just have to give yourself a little time and love and TLC. Um, and when you look at yourself through the lens of self compassion, it just is the fastest path to get there.

Steph Barron Hall 13:28

Yeah, I love that glimmer of hope, and I want to jump back into those, but first I'd love to zoom out a little bit, um, and hear a little bit more about your path and your career. Um, you've already hinted at it a little bit, uh, but I'd love to hear about your background. Yeah,

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 13:48

the early chapters of the five resets because This is really what called me to do this work. And prior to becoming a doctor with an expertise on stress and burnout, mental health and resilience, I was a stressed patient. I was working 80 hours a week in my medical training. I developed. You know, terrible eating and sleeping habits. I wasn't exercising because again, it's that hustle culture. I was told at a very young medical age, you know, I was very green and in medical school, I was told that pressure creates diamonds. And that is truly the resilience myth and that idea of toxic resilience. So I was like, Hey, diamond in the making here. And so I just kept on keeping on like Matthew McConaughey says, right? Keep on keeping on. And I just kept at it and I was working 80 hours a week. Wasn't really taking care of myself. Wasn't sleeping as great, was eating on the run because I was. You know, seeing patient upon patient, I was certainly not exercising, not doing any of these concrete things to manage my stress. I thought stress was just. What everyone faces and that I was too resilient and resilient people don't get stressed out and it's not going to happen to me. And, you know, just kept going on until it did happen to me and it absolutely blindsided me. It's sidelined me. And that is when I really started to dig into the science of why I was feeling the way I was because I was a doctor in training. I had access to lots of research and scientific tools. I put on my scientist hat, really turned on that part of my brain. And really went deep into the investigative world of why was I feeling as bad as I was and what can I do to get out of it? So, I essentially became the doctor I wish I'd had at the time of my own stress struggle. And so when I see patients or when I'm talking to people with You know, the work that I do in media and health communication, I see myself in them because I too experienced acutely debilitating stress at a time that I didn't have any answers and I was just grasping at straws and I found my own way out of my stress struggle and then I decided to become the doctor that I wish I had been for myself. Moved to Boston to start a fellowship in integrative medicine at Harvard studied the mind body connection and then over time, you know, was able to develop a clinical practice for stress management because one of the studies I had done during that time of fellowship, I, my fellowship, um, one fellowship paper I had done, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, at the time called Archives of Internal Medicine, it was, um, studying whether or not stress management counseling is offered in a doctor's office. And old research has shown that 60 to 80 percent of doctor's offices, or doctor's visits rather, have at least one, some component of stress to them. So it's not that like stress causes medical symptoms, but it certainly worsens them. And When you looked at the data, when I looked at the data, only 3 to 6 percent of doctors visits had a stress related component. So there was a big gap there. It's like 60 to 80 percent of visits have stress associated with them. But only 3 to 6 percent of doctors are actually counseling patients about stress. So it was like really the elephant in the exam room, so to speak. And then I wanted to build a practice around that. So that's what I did. I built a practice. Directly in relation to that study. And, um, that was what I was doing for many, many years, treating patients specifically focusing on stress management, using mind body therapies, using the science and, you know, strategies that I write about in the five reset. It's many of my patient stories are in there. And then over time I transitioned away from patient care, started doing more speaking and teaching about this kind of stuff, doing more media work.

Steph Barron Hall 17:54

yeah, yeah. I think, um, one thing that I've heard from a lot of authors is we write the book that we need to read.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 18:00

Yes. I love that.

Steph Barron Hall 18:02

And I think, you know, perhaps not now, but, you know, maybe especially when you first started out being that person who needed that doctor who was so familiar with stress.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 18:12

It was, I love that we, you know, often I'll say like. The book finds us, we don't find them. We don't find the book, the book finds us. But yes, we write the book that we wish we had had, at least for me. That was certainly the case. My doctor at the time, of course I saw a doctor, because I was going through lots of stress, and I was having palpitations, and I didn't know where it was coming from, and so I did the full, full workup. Heart tests, and electrolytes, and infection, and anemia, and thyroid, and the whole nine. The million dollar workup, so to speak. And I was told, Oh, everything looks great. You know, you should be really reassured. Everything looks great. It's just stress. Don't worry. I've experienced it too. You're a medical resident, right? You're a doctor in training. Oh yeah, that can totally do it to you. It's just stress. And you know, so when I said, okay, then now what? It's just stress. Now what? And then I was told, just try to relax. So I did what I could, you know, at the time I didn't. No, any better. So what does that mean? Just try to relax. I hung out with my friends. I went shopping, went to the spa, had more dinners out with family and friends, watched movies, just, you know, hung out and try to quote unquote relax. But it actually didn't work. My symptoms didn't really go away. I didn't feel better. I continued to have stress. I started developing burnout. And then that's when I had that wake up call of, okay, this. You know, people just say, well, try to relax and what does that mean? And so when you try to relax and you don't feel good, then you feel like a failure because, oh, I tried to relax and my stress didn't go away. There must be something wrong with me. And that is for me, was the real wake up call. And that's what led me down that path of discovery. And, um, that is when I started reading, you know, I think I read like every single research study ever published on, on stress and burnout at the time. Um, and then I found my way out. And that's why I, when I say I wanted to be the doctor that I wish I had had, and, you know, and therefore I wanted to write this book that I wish I had had, because, you know, I often think about this word bibliotherapy. It's like, when you're reading this book, I want people to feel that therapeutic connection with me, with the messaging in the book about that. It's, you know, that stress is something that you can, in fact, Overcome with a few simple strategies and a few mindset shifts and that if you're feeling this way, it's okay, helping people feel a sense of, you know, normalizing and validating this experience for them because it is a universal experience. The thing about stress, the great stress paradox is that universally, we are all feeling this way, and yet it completely isolates us, which is wild because the taboo and the shame around. Experiencing stress, sharing it with others. I mean, it's all tied to toxic resilience and the resilience myth, right? Like, Oh, I can't talk about this because then people will think that I'm not resilient. If there is any silver lining over the past few years, I mean, there is very, very few silver linings, but if there is one, it's that finally stress and burnout, mental health, these are things that are at the forefront. People are really speaking openly about them. There's less shame and there's less stigma. And that is a huge silver lining.

Steph Barron Hall 21:33

Yeah, I think so too. Um, and I love that you took such a scientist approach to it, uh, reading all the research papers, um, and that you've translated that into a book because a lot of us, you know, for one, where do we find the studies, right? We're like, I don't know. And then we read it and they're like, I don't know what this actually means. What implication does this have? So you took that approach, especially in light of, of some strategies that seem helpful, but in the end, you know, adding more. Nights out or dinners or spa trips. It's taxing on your pocketbook. It's taxing on your already full calendar and your medical residence. Like you have extra time and money, right?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 22:13

Not at all, right? In the, in the ambient, in the ample, uh, free time that I had. And I think a lot of us, at the time, what I was doing is I was using, like, the everything but the kitchen sink approach, right? It's like, okay, I'll try this, and then I'll try that, and there was, like, no method to any of it. It was just, like, someone would tell me, oh, there's this great masseuse, there's great... Massage I got, you should totally try that. I would say, okay, great. That's going to fix it, but there is no magic pill. Right? And so you have to craft a whole program and an approach and build it into your life. I didn't know it at the time, but now I have been able to, after 20 plus years of teaching this stuff and you know, I walk the talk, I do all of these things, it was incredibly stressful writing a book about stress, believe it or not, with the many other demands on your time and I practiced. Religiously, every single thing that I talk about in the book, I do it. To this day. In fact, right before our call, I was on a walk because I know that that's very helpful for your brain and body. I talk about that. Um, and there's just very simple things that you can do, but the goal is to do a little bit every day, even if it's five minutes, because that's what makes the difference.

Steph Barron Hall 23:27

I love that perspective too, because sometimes when I was writing my book, um, which was actually a major contributor to all of this stress and burnout, um, I, I felt like really hypocritical. But what I love about what you just mentioned is the reason I felt hypocritical, hypocritical is because I didn't feel different, but I was doing all the things. So the hypocrisy aspect felt like, Oh, I should just be like, Oh, it's fine. I can apply all these things. But actually what was also happening for me is like, I was doing all of the actions and I can still do all the maintenance actions and still feel a sense of stress. And it's not like I'm not doing it or something.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 24:13

Yeah. And I talk a lot, you know, in the five resets, I talk about this idea of the rule of two, that when we are facing a huge stress, like writing a book, it is very difficult to sustain lifestyle overhauls. Now many of your listeners will not have been, will not have written a book, so you don't have that experience, but certainly have the experience of living through a very difficult time in 2020. And all of us, you know, that. PTSD that we all developed from that lockdown period. And I know we don't want to revisit and go there, but just to make the simple illustration that during that time, we all thought, I'm sure I certainly did, I was like, Oh, a couple of weeks, I'm going to learn how to bake, I'm going to learn a new language and I'm going to build a farmhouse table from scratch. These

Steph Barron Hall 25:00

Yeah.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 25:00

real big goals. Like, Oh, this is like something I really want to do. And because it was such a stressful time. Now, after the continued and ongoing stress, it is a wonder if we shower once a day, eat a few vegetables, right? Like, win and win. And that's because our brains, even positive change, registers as stress on the brain. So when you are facing stress, like for example, with your example of writing a book. Wonderful. Great project ahead, but it still is a stressor for you on your brain and therefore when your brain is stressed, you can't, you know, build, learn how to bake and build a farmhouse table from scratch and learn a new language because your faculties are already used up with the stress. So you can only do. Two things at a time if you want those changes to stick, otherwise your system gets overloaded. So when I've seen patients who've come to me with a lot of stress, they too want to use, you know, let me try everything. I want the kitchen sink approach. And then inevitably it doesn't work because we can't sustain that. And then we feel like a failure and then it's a vicious cycle. Instead aim to do two Simple things at a time. Build those in. It takes about eight weeks to create a habit. And then after eight weeks, add two more things and two more things. And then over time, then you can manage your stress. And so I lay it all out in the five resets because I've had many patients where I've taught this rule of two. We've brought this You know, really full circle in a clinical context, but yes, when you are facing a lot of stress in your life, as many of us are, these stressors aren't going away, they're chronic and ongoing, really just two things, two small things at a time, you know, and differs for person to person. But that is the key, starting small, going slow and having a lot of self compassion and giving yourself grace in the process.

Steph Barron Hall 26:51

Yeah. Well, that's the trickiest part I've already mentioned. That's the trickiest part for me. And I also know for a lot of my, my listeners who are, um, who tend to be like really high achieving type of people, um, that population, we don't offer ourselves grace at all.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 27:09

And yet, yeah, and yet we're so compassionate with others

Steph Barron Hall 27:13

course. Yeah.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 27:15

and we have to hold a mirror up to ourselves and say, like, you are worthy of your own compassion.

Steph Barron Hall 27:22

Yeah. Yeah. I love that reminder. Um, well let's dive into the five resets because I'd love for you to walk us through them. Um, and. Give us a few tips on how to apply some of these things as we navigate our daily lives I love that you're making it so approachable because again like that's something I hear from a lot of parents, too Where they're like I could not possibly add another thing

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 27:45

I hear it all the time. I'm a parent. I'm a working mother in America in 2023. I mean, doesn't get much more stressful than that with all of the various, uh, structural forces at play. Um, and yes, I hear that. I get that all the time from parents and I am a living embodiment of that because it is incredibly difficult and I wish I could go to the gym every day for an hour, but I can't because I am juggling so many competing priorities. So what can I do instead? I go for a 20 minute walk. I commit to that every single day and I talk about that. So I can walk you through the resets. So the resets, there are five and there are five small, but mighty. Mindset shifts that can help move you away from stress and towards resilience, the true resilience, not toxic resilience. And in each of those resets, I offer several strategies that are science backed, practical and low time cost. So, you know. 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and most importantly, free. Because as a clinician, I've seen patients from all walks of life, some who have many resources, some who don't. And I always want to offer something that is universal. Because to me, stress is universal, right? Like we already talked about that. So why shouldn't these therapies be accessible and available to everyone? And so there are 15 science backed strategies. And so, as the way I had, the way I've really developed this book and this approach is the way I have developed my clinical approach to patients. I would love to see every single patient that, you know, that in the world who is suffering with stress, but unfortunately, that's not realistic or feasible. And so this book is. My way of being able to reach someone who is feeling stressed in Indiana or I don't know, South Africa or Finland or wherever in the world people are feeling stress and no country is feeling more stress than another country. It's like a universal phenomenon truly across sectors. The two sectors that are struggling the most with stress and burnout right now are, of course, working parents, like we discussed that's across the board. Educators, so teachers and other educators are really facing a lot of stress and, um, those in the, uh, workforce in some form of clinical medicine. So nurses, techs, physicians, um, and these have historically over the past several years, educators and people on the front lines have historically been facing. Higher levels of stress simply because of the nature of the work that they do and the lack of structural reinforcements and organizational support that we offer in society, right? For, for these specific groups. So the 1st reset is get clear on what matters most and. The crux of that is to first figure out your why, why are you eager to get a better handle on your stress. Many people will say, I want to feel better. I, you know, I want less stress, but when you have a why, it's just Easier and more definitive to create a roadmap to get to that. Why otherwise it's a vague concept and stress can often be vague, but I want to make it as clear, concise, practical, and quantifiable. So I offer lots of strategies there in that reset. You can, you get your personalized stress score. You do a quiz and you get a number you go through and you get a roadmap step by step of how you're going to hit. Your why, and then if you want to think about your why a question I pose and I walk you through what this is, I offer, you know, this idea of the most goal, M O S T, and you know, it's an acronym and it's not so much about what's the matter, what's the matter with me. It's what matters to me most. And so that really sets up that first reset of what matters to you and getting clear on that. So that you can do the work of the next resets. The second reset is find quiet in a noisy world. And there are many ways that you can find your quiet, but I talk specifically about technology, sleep, and a few other strategies, and really getting clear on that. How to find your quiet. We all know that we should stay off our phones, for example. But why is it that many of us are doomscrolling until midnight when we should go to bed earlier? In fact, That is a concrete example of, you know, when you ask majority of people, why are you not getting to bed? Nearly everyone will say they are on one screen or another, whether that's TV, a phone, you know, a laptop, a reader, some form of screen. And that is of course, impacting our sleep through blue light and other things. So how can we close that gap between knowledge, knowing that something isn't great for us and action? Doing something practical to actually work with our brains and bodies and biology of stress to then limit our exposure to blue light and screens and phones. Now, this is not abstinence. No one's going to become a monk here and renounce technology. In fact, the data doesn't even support that. It's about decreasing your reliance on these things so that you can increase your internal bandwidth. The next reset, the third reset, is to sync your brain to your body. And this is specifically about the mind body connection. How do you tap into it? What is the mind body connection? How do you find it in your everyday life? You don't need to go to a spa or a retreat or the top of the Himalayas to find your mind body connection. You can do it right in the middle of your messy and over scheduled life. And I offer several strategies because that is really the key to minimizing your stress. The fourth reset come up for air, various relaxation and breathing techniques, why the breath is the gateway for stress, and we, you know, I can get into that. And finally, the fifth reset, bring your best self forward. It is a culmination of all of the resets. It is giving you a new framework to work with for the future. What I hope the five resets does with the 15 strategies peppered throughout the book is to help people overcome their stress and burnout for good. I say this early on in the chapter, chapter one, that your brain and body do not believe in hacks. I don't like that word at all because I don't buy it. Your brain and body don't buy it either because they will find a way to override that hack. And we know this because we've tried lots of hacks over the years for all sorts of stuff. And. Inevitably, we go back to, you know, how we used to be kind of thing. So you have to do certain things, very simple things. One example I give in one of the resets is like, keep your phone off your nightstand. And you might be like, what, why would I ever do that? So, you know, there's very simple, practical things. We can dig into that if you want. Um, but those are the five resets. To really set up, uh, create, you know, several strategies throughout your life and set up your day to day so that you can actually work with your biology, because everything I suggest is science based, to minimize your stress and lead yourself, your brain and body, lead yourself towards more resilience.

Steph Barron Hall 35:00

Yeah. Yeah. Those are also helpful. And it's funny that you even mentioned the nightstand thing because I've talked about that before. And, um, somebody was like, well, then how do you wake up?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 35:10

Right. You invest in a low cost alarm

Steph Barron Hall 35:12

yeah, I have an alarm clock. I also, what I've done is I put it in the next room, my phone with the alarm on, and then I have to walk over there and turn the alarm off.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 35:23

is advanced stuff. Wow. Um, I, that's fantastic. If that is like, you know, a PhD in that, in that, uh, for now, you know, if you're a beginner and listening, I would say just getting it off, you know, 10 feet away. away from the nightstand, some place where you have to, you know, someplace else in your bedroom where you have to actually physically get up and investing in a low cost alarm clock is great. But I think the PhD level stuff is definitely moving it out of your bedroom, moving it into another room that is like, wow, so impressed that you do that.

Steph Barron Hall 35:57

Well, then the challenge is not to grab it and then bring it back to Fed, right? It's like to

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 36:01

Right, right, right. Yeah, that's right.

Steph Barron Hall 36:04

but I'm curious if when you're thinking about the resets, if they're like, um, you go and order one through five, or how do you think about that?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 36:13

So I have tried to mimic the book to my clinical approach. And so it is something that you start off with, you lay the foundation with the first reset, and then it's just naturally progressing to the second, third, fourth, and fifth, and the fifth is the culmination. Now, of course, there are people who have shared with me that they are having a lot of stress and it's difficult for them to sit down and read the whole book from start to finish. That is not the intention at all. You could certainly pick up the book. Read the strategies, there are 15 of them and you could start working, you know, it's not about like a very strict plan of how to bring this in, chances are you start bringing some of the strategies into your life, you will start feeling better, you will gain some more bandwidth, you might want to do another strategy over time, there is a rhyme and reason for laying it out the way I have simply because it almost primes your brain and body for what's next. So, You know, the early chapters talks a lot about stress and burnout and why you are experiencing what you're experiencing, helping you validate and normalize your experience. And then you go through and of course, there will be some sections that perhaps may be more applicable to you than others, but chances are, I have very much intentionally chosen patients throughout. And all of the patient stories I have to be as illustrative as possible to really encompass the human experience of stress. So equally men, male and female equal equally in terms of what, um, you know, socioeconomic strata people, um, inhabit and lifestyle and family structure and jobs. And so it is truly, it is something that I take very seriously that. Approach of really trying to be as equitable and inclusionary as possible.

Steph Barron Hall 38:03

Yeah, that's so helpful. Um, another question I have just about the structure overall. So you have the five resets, the 15 strategies. Is it like there are three strategies under each reset or

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 38:14

It depends. Some resets have two strategies. Some resets have five strategies. It really depends on the content. So I have like truly poured my heart and soul into this book in terms of the strategies and what, you know, and so. There will be certain, uh, chapters like certain resets, which will have a few more simply because that is that content and that material needs a little bit more explanation and a few extra strategies. And then there are other resets that just have like say two or three simply because you just need like, you know, one or two reminders and daily practices.

Steph Barron Hall 38:54

Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. So let's like kind of think about a couple different types of people. So maybe first, somebody who's brand new to this, they're feeling really stressed. They're like, I don't know what the heck to do, but something's got to give. Where do they start?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 39:09

You, for that person, you would start by Getting the book and start reading just the introduction alone. Reading the introduction of the book will help you feel a sense of grounding. It will help to really normalize your experience because I share a patient story, one of my friends who shared with me her story and The overwhelming feedback I've received from people have, has been like, Oh, that intro was me. I saw myself in that intro. And I think when you see yourself in the pages of this book, it just is so validating. You know, when I read books, I'm a voracious reader and whenever I read. A book where I see myself. It just makes me want to read more and go deeper into this content in this material. And so this work in the five resets does not need any background. So you don't need to have figured anything out. You can come into this completely blind and say, Hey, I'm curious about my stress. I think I may have a problem, but I don't even know if I'm stressed yet, but I'm curious about this work. So I'll take a look. That book, this book will speak to that person. It will also speak to the person who says, I am so stressed out and burnt out. I have tried everything like, you know, tick tock culture, right? Like, Let's try this. Let's try that. Let's try this. Let's try that. I've tried everything and nothing is working and I just need your help. This book would have been a fantastic book for me to read when I was a medical resident. Like you said, we write the books we wish we had read. I would have loved to read this book. I was a trained doctor. Working 80 hours, I didn't have time, I didn't have bandwidth, and I was deeply struggling. I knew the science of things, but I didn't know why things were happening to my brain and body as they were, and this book would have been perfect for me. It is also equally Perfect and effective for someone who has had no background in science, no background in, you know, their brain and their body and biology or any of it. And are just wondering why they feel the way they do like, Oh, I think I'm stressed. I think I feel anxious, or I just really, and even if you can't even use those words, because you just don't have that, you know, access to those words or that sense of self awareness to say, I think I may be stressed or burned out. Even just saying, I don't feel good. I don't know why I want to feel better. This book could be the approach for you because in my clinical work, I've seen tens of thousands, right? Like, in my work as a doctor, in my talks with people, the human condition and really parsing out the human story is what I do. Because as a clinician, you're trained to really understand human beings. The other thing that doctors do is that we are trained for pattern recognition. So when you go to see a doctor and you say like, I have abdominal pain, I have belly pain. It's their job to ask you all of these different questions so that they can figure out, okay, well this belly pain is because of this or that or this or that, right? Like there's 30 things that could cause belly pain. And how is it that doctors typically can figure out? It's because we're good at pattern recognition. Stress is nothing more than a set of symptoms and signs. And there is a pattern to your stress. You may not know it because it's happening to you. So you are just like, I don't know, I just feel terrible. I don't know why, I don't know what's going on. And this book, The Five Resets, helps kind of open your eyes up to the various patterns of stress that people face. And then it like just makes it very clear for you.

Steph Barron Hall 42:52

I think that's so helpful the way that you kind of describe all of that, the way that you kind of describe the stress and these different stages we can be at, you know, early on in your medical career and creating this framework for people. That's what you needed, right? Like, we all need that now. Um, and I think even sometimes, Yeah, yeah. It's just challenging with all of the different technology and all the different things that we have going on. Now. I sound like my grandparents or something that like saying that, but, but truly, I think that there are a lot of added stressors. And I'm wondering if you could share, like, perhaps for somebody who might have been doing a few of these things already, maybe they're at that mind body step. What is a strategy that they can use during that reset?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 43:42

So the mind body connection sounds like a very fancy word. But the mind body connection is nothing more than the basic understanding that are, that your brain and your body are in constant communication and inextricably linked. What's good for your body is good for your brain and vice versa. When you do better, you feel better. You may not have heard of the mind body connection before as a term. It might be new to you, but you have felt the mind body connection your whole life. For example, when you have a flutter in your heart, butterflies. At falling in love. That's the mind body connection when your face gets flushed when you are embarrassed and you feel that sense of, you know, deep embarrassment and shame. Also, the mind body connection when your heart is racing before a big presentation, the sense of fear. Mind body connection. So there are so many times in your life where you have faced the mind body connection and didn't really put it together as, Oh, wait a second. This is my mind body connection. When you are feeling a sense of stress, Anxiousness, worry, you know, whatever the term you want to give it, you have a lot of sensations in your body and you recognize those as stress. And so one of the ways to really tap into the mind body connection and the reason to tap into the mind body connection is because you can then influence the mind body connection. So while it has been going on in the background your whole life, like gravity, it's like something that's all around you. Just happening. But once you learn what the mind body connection is, you can tap into it. Once you can tap into the mind body connection, you can influence it. Once you can influence the mind body connection, you can influence it for less stress and more resilience, thereby feeling better. So all of those sensations that you have when you're stressed, you are able to quell a lot of those disc, you know, uncomfortable, uneasy, and frankly, negative Thoughts and feelings, right, when we're feeling stressed. And so one technique I often suggest to first tap into the mind body connection, this was the same technique that I learned in my early medical training. It's called the stop, breathe, be technique. It takes three seconds to do. And what you're going to do is stop whatever you're doing, ideally pick a mundane activity that you do every day. So for me at the time, it was knocking on the door and entering a patient room before I saw the next patient. You would see 30, 40 patients a day. And so you need it to be fresh for every patient. And so that is what I would do. Maybe for someone it is hitting join meeting before their next Zoom. Maybe if you are a stay at home parent, it is picking up a toy, bending down to pick up a toy, or doing your dishes, putting that dish into the dishwasher. What is something that you do repetitively throughout the day that is like a mundane task, but right after that task you feel a lot of stress? So clicking join zoom is a great example because it's something that you do all day, every day, but you know, that the minute you hit join meeting, there's a flood of emotion and stress because you're engaging, you're in this meeting, you have to be on and present, etc. So if there is something that you do. Repetitively, every day, choose that. And if you don't want to, if you don't want to think about what that action is, don't worry about it. You can just do this anywhere, anytime. The key is to just do it several times a day, as often as possible. So you're going to stop right before you do that action. You just want to stop. You're going to breathe, take a deep breath in and out, and then you're going to just be. So think about your feet on the floor. Your feet have 30 bones and a hundred muscles. So you want to ground yourself and just be. And then proceed, hit that joint meeting, put that dish in the dishwasher, walk out your door, walk into your exam room, or walk into your workplace, or turn on the ignition of the car to head to work, or daycare, or whatever, you know, whatever your day entails. And when you do something repetitively, the stop, breathe, be, you then, what happens over time. Over the course of several days and weeks, it does not take long to set in. You start becoming aware of your mind body connections. So what happens is the tenor of your day to day changes. It feels less frenetic. It feels less chaotic. You feel more in control. Has anything changed on the external surface? Uh, you know, out and about in the external world for you. No, you're still clicking join meeting on the zoom. You're still cleaning up toys. You're still doing your dishes. You're heading to work. You're knocking on exam room doors, whatever the thing may be. But internally, everything has shifted. You become more centered and grounded. You're able to be in that moment. You're able to face the next stressful moment. And just that check in with yourself to stop. Breathe B can be an incredibly powerful reset. You have to do it several times every day. But even if you just say, I'm going to do it twice a day or three times a day, that's great. You know, like as, as many times as you can do stop, breathe B. It takes three seconds. Again, perfect for someone who is a high achiever. Perfect for someone who has so much in their lives that they cannot even fathom to fit something else in. Now, once you start practicing the. Stop breathing methods, start tapping into your mind body connection. You'll start noticing things over the next several weeks of doing that. And then you will likely, it has a ripple effect. Then you will likely say, Oh, like, you know, what's, let me try another strategy, this book, because I think this could help me. And then it just starts building upon, you know, one builds upon the other simply because you feel better. And then when you feel better, you do better and it's all in the doing.

Steph Barron Hall 49:28

Yeah. I love that so much because, one, the specificity. I've heard a lot like, fill your ten toes, right? Um, but the specificity of, what was it? I've already forgotten. The 30, the 30 bones

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 49:43

Yes. 30 bones, 100 muscles.

Steph Barron Hall 49:45

that's so cool.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 49:47

Yeah, it's a great grounding force. So, it's like, just ground yourself. Um, another thing that I talk about is sticky feet. It's similar to stop, breathe, be, but it's a little different. And I use it in different contexts. Sticky feet is something I often do in the morning. It is my morning ritual. So, when I'm brushing my teeth, when I am making my morning tea, when I am doing things in the morning, getting ready, doing my hair and makeup. In the shower to practice sticky feet, and that's simply being. Aware of all of my feet and, uh, sorry, all of my toes and my feet on the ground are really articulating my feet and that's not a three second thing that can be like a minute or two and just like, again, grounding yourself that works great when you are barefoot, um, stop where you be works great. You know, I love high heels and so I used to wear high heels all the time in clinic because I enjoy that. I enjoy wearing high heels, um, less so now, I think, but you know, I, at the start of my medical training, I certainly wore high heels every single day. And, um, so stop, breathe, be works anytime sticky feet works, you know, anytime too. So those are kind of the, the two things to think about. And the key with both is to bring your mind where your feet are, because when you think about what is anxiety, worry, stress. Anxiety is a future focused emotion. You are focused on what if. What if this happens? What if this happens? What if that happens? What if I fail? What if this doesn't go well? What if? What if? What if? It is a runaway train of what if thinking. It is future focused. It is not what is. And something like stop, breathe, be, or sticky feet ground you in what is and that constant continual reminder repetitively over the course of a day. That is the grounding force. And then that helps you feel a sense of grounding in the present moment. So then you can manage the next moment because your bandwidth, your energy, your attention isn't into that. What if it is in the, what is

Steph Barron Hall 51:43

Yeah, that's so useful. And I think too, so many of us are used to being on zoom all the time. So we just forget that anything exists, at least I do, you know, anything exists like below the shoulders essentially. And sometimes when I'm on a zoom or something and I like refocus, like, Oh, I am in. My house, I am in my chair, I am in, like, this area of the country, like, this person I'm speaking with is all the way over here, and, like, it's just so interesting to, like, notice that.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 52:16

Yes. And it, it takes time to notice that because when you are in stress mode, you are in survival mode and fight or flight mode, you cannot access those parts of the brain quite literally, because what you're describing is the prefrontal cortex and the prefrontal cortex is about memory, planning, and organization. It's this part of your brain. If you put your hand on your forehead, prefrontal cortex is right there. below that part of your forehead. And that is like what we call adulting, like all the things that you're describing, it's like adulting, right? Like planning, memory, organization. Where am I right now? Who am I speaking to? How do I feel? I am in my home. This person is somewhere else. Like all of these relational, very organizational, strategic kind of thinking. Stress is not housed in the prefrontal cortex. Stress is housed in a completely. different part of our brain called the amygdala. It is a tiny almond shaped structure. It is located deep within your brain, kind of like in between your ears and lower down. So, you know, I can't show you the way I can show you where your prefrontal cortex is. And the amygdala, when it's on high alert and it's being fired, it dampens your prefrontal cortex because it is really taking shape and taking charge. So when you practice these things like stop, breathe, and be. Sticky feet and get that sense of grounding you are triggering your prefrontal cortex again and Quelling that amygdala. So every again every strategy that I offer there's a science backed component to it I don't necessarily, you know, I won't explain that. Like I explained it, of course, in the early chapters of the book, but then we're not going to keep talking about the prefrontal cortex for every strategy. But essentially, when you are able to tap into your mind body connection, when you are able to access it, influence it, and then feel good, it is often because you have, through this very practical, easy, three second exercise, stop, breathe, be. You have essentially quelled and quietened your amygdala and your stress response, and you have let your other parts of your brain take over.

Steph Barron Hall 54:20

Mm hmm. So getting out of that, like, the stress response, like, that we know of, the four Fs.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 54:26

Yes, fight or flight.

Steph Barron Hall 54:27

freeze, spawn.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 54:28

Yes. Yes, and it helps you get out of that state. And it can happen quickly because you are accessing the mind body connections. You are getting out of your head and inhabiting your body a little bit more.

Steph Barron Hall 54:40

Yeah. So it turns out we can't think our way out of stress.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 54:43

You cannot think your way out of stress, and that is a great myth because if we could just think ourselves out of stress, like, Oh, I'm fine, or come on, get over it, we would have done it by now. And it is detrimental thinking because when we, you know, when you don't find yourself successful at thinking your way out of stress, you think something's wrong with you, but there is nothing wrong with you. It is the biology of your brain behaving exactly as it should.

Steph Barron Hall 55:12

love that point because it's like, there's nothing wrong with you. Your brain is doing what it's designed to do. It's keeping you alive.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 55:18

That's right. And your brain is a very powerful tool. It is doing exactly what it was intended. It is focused. The amygdala is focused on survival and self preservation. That is what the amygdala does. So when you are feeling that sense of hyper vigilance, when you are very tuned in to what's going on around you when you're feeling stressed. All of these things are normal and part of the stress response. So again, there's nothing wrong with you. Everything right with you. As one of my mentors, John Kabat Zinn always likes to say, but he talks about it in another context, like meditation, but you know, it is truly. Your body doing exactly what it was intended to do, and that is why so much of the five resets is about the sense of self compassion and grace with yourself, understanding the biology of stress and why do we do the things that we do a lot of this is not conscious, right? It's not like we want to feel a certain way, or we want to behave this way. A lot of this is just self preservation behaviors. And so how do we move out of self preservation mode? And how do we move into self flourishing mode?

Steph Barron Hall 56:24

Yeah. Okay. I mean, we could talk about this. I would love to talk about this for three more hours because this is such a curiosity of mine. But alas, we will have to buy your book. Um, I have two questions that I always ask everyone. The first one, I know you're an avid reader, as am I, so tell me about a book that has refreshed you, helped you, or shaped you in the last year.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 56:50

Ooh, so many books. I could not even pick just one. I read a lot of historical fiction. I also read a lot of fiction. I read so, so many books. Um, let's see in the past year, what was a book I read? I mean, I can go on and on. Let me think, let me look into my list of books. I have a whole list of books that I read Loved The Covenant of Water by Abraham Forgues.

Steph Barron Hall 57:22

Mm,

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 57:23

It was a book that I read pretty recently, several months ago. It's a very long read, you know, several hundred pages. And it was beautiful and majestic. And one of Oprah's books of the year, or, you know, Oprah's book pick of the year, um, he is a fellow physician. He writes fiction and I've read some of his other books. Cutting for Stone was one of the books I first read and it was my favorite book for many, many years until this one.

Steph Barron Hall 57:50

Okay, I, I will have to check that out. Maybe that'll be my Thanksgiving weekend read.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 57:54

Oh, it's a good one. It's a great book.

Steph Barron Hall 57:57

Yeah. Okay. Very last question. Um, tell me a piece of advice that has really stuck with you.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 58:04

Something that has really stuck with me is something that I was taught early in my stress struggle. I attended a class at the University of Pennsylvania. I was living in Philadelphia at the time. I was training a medical trainee. And I attended a class on mindfulness for healthcare providers. So it was a whole bunch of doctors learning mindfulness techniques. And I was thinking, okay, let me try this. Like, oh, let's try one other thing. And I went to the class. And the instructor, who was a physician himself, Dr. Michael Beam. Said to us, we shared our like day. I think we shared the most challenging thing that happened that day and we went around the room and people had some crazy stories, you know, like really intense stories because we were all physicians and working in the inner city or just some story about something that really had shaped and moved them. And he said, look around the room. Look at how everyone is living life with such intensity. Now think about your own story and your own life. And realize that we are all including you living life with the same intensity. And hearing him say that it just shocked me. And so I have taken that with me, every patient encounter, every encounter I have in the medical setting, or the setting of being a media and health communicator, a speaker, a podcaster, understanding that. Each person that you come into contact with is living life with the same intensity. And that just really taps into your sense of compassion for yourself and others, taps into your sense of grace and really just makes you just more open hearted, which is something we need in this world more than ever, especially now.

Steph Barron Hall 59:54

Yeah, that's beautiful. I really like that. Yeah. Thanks for sharing.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 1:00:00

Of course,

Steph Barron Hall 1:00:02

So where can people find you? I'm going to link everything up in the show notes, so don't worry about

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 1:00:08

you, yeah, you can find me at 5resets. com, number 5resets. com. You can find me all over social media at Dr. Aditi Narukar.

Steph Barron Hall 1:00:22

Perfect. And where will we be able to find your book?

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 1:00:25

My book, The 5 Resets Rewire Your Brain for Less Stress and More Resilience, comes out in January of 2024, January 16th to be specific, here in the U. S. It is available at iResearch. com. All independent booksellers and all major bookstores online, anywhere you buy your books, and it is also available globally in various countries around the world, and you can check out my website for all of those details. Asia, Europe, South America, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and did I mention North America? Canada. So all over

Steph Barron Hall 1:01:05

All over. Okay. Well, that's fantastic because we all need to learn more about this topic and these five resets. And I'm so grateful that you've come on the podcast today to share them with me and our listeners. And I think this will be really impactful. So thanks so much for joining me.

Dr. Aditi Nerukar 1:01:20

thank you for this beautiful conversation. It was an absolute honor and privilege

Steph Barron Hall 1:01:29

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify