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Hello, and welcome back to Enneagram in real life. A podcast that will help you go beyond any grand theory into practical understanding so that you can apply the Enneagram in your day-to-day life. I'm your host, Steph Baron hall, thanks so much for listening and now onto the show. On today's episode, I'm going to be talking about how I became an Enneagram coach, or I guess in any grand practitioner is more a word that I would use. Um, This is a podcast episode that I have recorded before. But it's been three years and I still get this question all the time. However, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the things that I said in that episode three years ago. I suppose it's a bit of an occupational hazard, but when you post or share a lot of content online, Inevitably, there are going to be things that you grow and then you no longer agree with them. And so that's where we're at with this. And I'm going to share some of my thoughts now tell you a little bit about coaching versus therapy. How I kind of see that now my personal roadmap on how I became an Enneagram coach and then things you need to know. If you want to go down this path. Even if you're not interested in becoming an Instagram coach, this might be helpful because I'm also going to talk about how you can choose somebody to work with as a client. So first let's talk about coaching versus therapy. Um, In the past. I think I had a more, hierarchical perspective on this, but I actually don't know. I think both are great. Both can be incredibly valuable. And personally I've benefited significantly from coaching. Even honestly, more so than therapy, which I feel like I'm maybe not supposed to say. But it's really true. And so I've also seen coaches become therapists and therapists become coaches. Where they're like, oh, this isn't for me. And, and I'm going to change directions and they, they changed. So it really is about what's the best fit for you as a client. And then if you are a professional, what's the best fit for you? How you want to approach that. So first off, um, let's talk about the focus of therapy versus coaching. So therapy is really about addressing and healing, psychological and emotional health. And then also mental health conditions like trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Whereas coaching is a little bit more about personal and professional development. It's kind of a false dichotomy to say that those things are different from emotional and psychological health, because it's all intertwined. But I think that the main idea is that coaching doesn't focus specifically on. Mental health conditions. And coaching focuses more on creating positive change. Um, it tends to be a little bit more future oriented versus therapy. Being more past oriented and coaching tends to be more action focused, like focusing on skills and tools to help you leverage the strengths. That you already have to reach the goals that you've set with your coach. With every therapist I've ever had, we've also set goals. But I find there's just a bit of a different tenor in terms of, the expected length of the coaching relationship versus therapeutic relationship. And the biggest difference I found is that coaching tends to be more specific. For example, at times I've had a business coach and an Enneagram coach. Or I've had somebody that I'm working through. You know, Things like self esteem or confidence with, uh, versus somebody that I'm just talking with about. I don't know, I guess, any Ram again, I think that's been a big part of the last few years. But I had a specific coach. Who was mentoring me on my coaching certification, which all, all touch back on as well. So. I think that's important to know because in therapy you aren't necessarily going to a different therapist for each challenge or each problem or each health condition versus coaching. The coaches tend to have more specialized training and it's not like the same coach is going to help you with every single thing that. You. Encounter. In terms of the approach of each. The approach in therapy tends to be more clinical like therapeutic, really bent toward the diagnosis and treatment of mental health disorders. Some people say therapy is more directive than coaching. Some people say it's less directive. I think it really depends on how each therapist and coach are trained. But. In my experience, my therapists have pushed me a little bit less than coaches. And I think that's because the issues that I was dealing with in therapy were so much more delicate than the issues that I brought into coaching. Again, probably a bit of a false dichotomy. Um, like there is so much overlap. But I think it's important to kind of tease apart from the details with coaching. It tends to be very collaborative in the sense that the client and the coach co-create this coaching relationship where. There can be kind of this imagination toward change. I think a lot of the time with coaching. There can be a lot more creativity and flexibility because. The stakes are lower. Um, coaching is not regulated and you're typically not dealing with things that are as heavy as in therapy. And so for better, for worse, I think that's the reality of, of that difference. So some of the commonalities both coaches and therapists can get training in various areas that are the same. So for example, coaches and therapists alike. Can't specialized training in things like. Ifs or internal family systems, EFT tapping, CBT type skills, motivational interviewing ADHD skills, even the Enneagram and all of the trainings I've been in there have been a lot of coaches and therapists in those trainings. And. Who you choose to work with should depend on your specific needs. Like if you need a higher level of care for mental health or psychiatric conditions. Um, what you're going in for considering coaching tends to be more specialized and also the relationship that you find that works best for you. These two types of help can really work together well. And I personally find. That's how I've used them and it's really helpful, but It's because I have. Therapy fully covered by my health insurance. And so that's allowed me to work with great coaches as well. But I don't think that I would be able to do that if I had to pay cash for both of them. So one of the biggest differences I think is in training. As I mentioned, both coaches and therapists can get extensive training, but that doesn't always mean that coaches do. Therapists have certain requirements for licensure across the United States. So a lot of my friends have been going through the process of becoming therapists in the past few years. So for therapy, you get a minimum of a master's degree. And then during your master's program, a lot of the time people do an internship. So they're being a therapist before they even graduate. And then after they graduate, they go in and they have to start doing. You know, their clinical hours, I can't remember the exact word for it. Um, But where they're supervised by somebody else. Meaning not that that person's always watching, but that. They are operating under somebody else's license and they take all their questions and concerns and all that kind of stuff. And they constantly get help. And, Consult with a more experienced therapist. So. That's my understanding based on, my friends who've gone through this. Who are, um, MFTs. LCSW use, So I'm sure that there are some little pockets that I'm not covering with that, but like, I think. What I'm trying to communicate is in general, that's kind of the minimum. Like you have to have a specialized masters and then go into all of these clinical hours. Versus coaching, which is unregulated. So, It can be a really good thing because coaches have a lot more flexibility. Like for me, I can work with somebody anywhere in the world, versus a therapist who, there are rules about who they can work with based on where they're located and based on where the client is located. So that tends to be really big difference. But that also means that you have to do your own digging in terms of figuring out who's the best fit for you with a coach and where they got their training. And are they capable of helping you? Because it's not assumed that they already have the appropriate training that they need. And. A number of years ago, we started seeing a lot of people saying I'm a coach, I'm a coach. I'm a coach. And okay. You know, but what skills or tools have you learned to be able to coach people? Well, Personally, I've always held coaching with a lot of reverence. So I took a long time. To actually start doing a lot of one-on-one coaching work, because I felt that I wanted to have a deeper level of skill. To be able to work with people in a way that's really ethical. And. Represents my values and represents my level of care and concern for their wellbeing. Um, and kind of honors that relationship with them. That's a little bit about coaching versus therapy. Now I want to talk a little bit about my roadmap and how I. Started doing this work. So like many of you, I assume I have always been interested in personalities. I remember even from a young age, Like reading little books and magazines that were all about, you know, what your favorite color says about your personality and how you're different from other people in your family and things like that. Like that just really interested me. So when I went to undergrad, I studied psychology because I wanted to become. A psychologist. And then I pretty quickly realized that school's expensive, not realizing of course, that. There are other ways to get around that. But I loved psychology. I just never even felt like those classes were work because it was so interesting to me and my sophomore year of college, I worked as an RA, which at our school was really more about leadership and development of yourself and of. The people who are on your floor, it wasn't super a disciplinary. Which is what I've heard from some other schools, but our RA staff used. Myers-Briggs a lot. So we talked about our similarities and differences based on our Myers-Briggs types. And I just fell in love with this idea of using these systems to help us understand ourselves better and to help improve our communication and our inner workings in the workplace. 'cause I think even when I think back to that time, there was another RA staff that we worked with closely. And the staff I was on. Everyone was really similar. Versus this other staff, they were, they were similar to each other, but they were really different from us. And so it was kind of interesting to see the differences and to learn how to communicate better. Based on, you know, our differences there. So that was like my first foray into this. And then. Aye. After college, I went to work with an organization that again, really focused on personal and professional development and how intertwined those two ideas are. And our staff as managers, we used a tool called, um, Well, it's called total sci at the time. It's now called something different, but SDI means strengths development inventory. And again, it was super interesting, super helpful. I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about my colleagues and I found that really useful. So throughout my entire time. You know, working at these companies, I always had a side hustle. Like I always had something on the side with some sort of creative pursuit or something like that. And so I think in like 2015, I started getting into the Enneagram. And then in 2017, I had this idea to create copy mugs for each Enneagram type. Um, so I sketched up these little icons and I created the Instagram account nine types co I never thought that people would say 90 Pesco, but here we are. And that's how nine types co came about. So I started posting these coffee mugs on Instagram and people purchase them. Send them out as gifts for the holidays. All that sort of stuff. So that was in 2017. The following year I started having people ask me like, Hey, can you just people that I knew, like friends or community members, things like that. Um, people said, Hey, can you come teach us the Enneagram? Because by that point, I kind of started writing a little bit about the Enneagram online on Instagram. And so I, I got really into it. I said, sure. You know, In 2018 and I started. Teaching it I'm in. Different organizations or small groups, stuff like that. And it was a lot of fun. I just really enjoyed. Talking about this tool. Um, and then people started asking, okay. Where did you get your certification? And at the time, I will tell you I had a spreadsheet listing out all the different certification options, how much they would cost, how much PTO I would need to go to them because at the time most of them were in person. And I ended up choosing the only one that was online at the time, which is called your Enneagram coach or YEC with Beth McCord. And that was kind of my first foray into that. So. With that little certification in hand. And also I, during that time I started a master's degree. So I ended up getting my master's in. Organizational communication and leadership. Um, which pairs really well actually with the Instagram, because it was so focused on self leadership and personal development. And then now I use that when I go into organizations and I teach the Enneagram. And I teach people how they can communicate better. Using some basic like communication theories. As well as the Enneagram, it it's perfect. It goes really well together. But I also started growing my business, um, which is nine types go and started teaching in organizations, more, doing a bit of coaching, typing interviews, things like that. And. I quickly found that I wanted more skills to do more of the Instagram part of it. Because during my master's program, I got a lot of great skills on facilitating team events and things like that, and even for coaching, because in a leadership master's program, You're going to get some good training on how, on how to coach people and how to do that sort of work. but I found that I wanted more. Training on the innate grand portion. as much as I love reading books and listening to podcasts, there's a different level of understanding that you can get from hearing somebody teach you the material. In a deeper way and I just didn't. Have enough of that at the time, I think like I would encounter ideas and I'd be like, okay. I need to understand better how these different concepts fit. With the Enneagram overall. In addition. one of the challenges with working in a corporate. Spaces is that typically people don't want to do typing interviews. Not like let's pay for 50 people to do a typing interview, but they will pay for an assessment. So I then thought, okay, I need to have some sort of an assessment. That is a little bit better than some of the free ones that are available are more accurate so that I can use that when I go into these corporate spaces. So I went and got a certification through integrative nine, which is One of the Enneagram certification schools that you can get. Um, and so that certification was. About eight half days. So about 32 to 35 hours of training on the Instagram in particular. And I did like that certification though. Now I really only recommend it for people who are newer to the Enneagram because, At the time I was also in the CP or a Chestnut Paice and a gram academy. Which you've heard me talk about their program a bit on this podcast. And I want to share a little bit more about it because I actually think this type of program is. The best to equip you for using the Instagram as a practitioner or as a coach. Really, I think it's. It's pretty vital. So I started the CPNA grant program in February of 2021. And I completed it December, 2022. So it was almost two years total of working through this program. Did I need another certification? Probably not. But what this program offered to me that none of the others did was a chance to really invest in my own inner work in a really deep and meaningful way. I think, as an Enneagram three, one of the shadows is. Only doing things for. The utility of it, like. For example, only doing a deep. In our work retreat because you have to, in order to get a certification. Now that can be a shadow. I think in this case, um, it actually was a good thing for me because I really needed a lot of that inner work. I really needed to go through a lot of that processing. It has been incredibly useful and helpful for me to do that. But. I think it was so hard that I probably wouldn't have done it if I hadn't had that certification at the end of the road. Um, Or at least I wouldn't have done it in that timing. I might've taken a little bit longer to do it, but the CP program does have a two year window. So you have to complete it within two years. So what the program entails is, Uh, class that they call solutions, which is where you learn really specific things about, how to do typing interviews, How to understand their answers and how to help them recognize their type. how to. Go a little bit deeper into the subtypes. and then also how to understand what your client is struggling with. And how to. Create solutions or create, Questioned or, homework assignment sort of, or, or figure out, you know, what's the thing that your client really needs. Because in my experience with coaching a lot of the time, and I do the exact same thing. This is my experience with myself as well. I'll say I need this one thing I hear a lot is I need. To know how to apply the Instagram. And what I know after years is that people. Sometimes they're having a hard time understanding how to apply the integral because. They need more information on themselves and they need more information on the Instagram. It's not just, I can't apply it. It's they need a little bit more knowledge and that will kind of help them. Open that gateway into being able to apply it. So. That's what the solutions course kind of covers. Helping understand what does this person really need? Even if that person might not be aware of what they're needing at the time And you do a lot of practice. During that course, all of their courses are five day intensives, meaning you're together seven or eight hours a day for five days in a row. I hate to say anything. Is the beauty of the pandemic, but the beauty of the pandemic is. That a lot of the Enneagram programs such as CP are now online. Which is the only reason I was able to do it, because like I said before, I was thinking like, okay, I'm going to have to pay for hotel. I have to take PTO. So it's just a lot more affordable when you can do it virtually. And then they have skills. Um, these have longer names. We just call them solutions and skills. Skills is really about. How do you work with each type? How do you work with an eight? How do you work with the four? And we talked a lot more about, the Aero types. Uh, we talked about. Communication, both in a corporate setting with the types, as well as you know, in your one-on-one coaching setting. So kind of laying that groundwork for both of those, you will also want to have their books and materials, so you'll want. Beatrice, Chestnut's the complete Enneagram being Book, the Enneagram guide to waking up. And you might want the nine types of leadership also by Beatrice Chestnut, as well as B's subtype booklet. Um, so all of those resources are gonna be important groundwork. I found that people who went into that course and didn't have those other resources felt a little bit lost. So I just recommend having a really good understanding of the integrant before you even go into those courses. And then each of those courses, had significant like case studies and other things like that, where you needed to do write-ups of all of. Whether that's one-on-one work with clients or you're, you're basically having to do write-ups showing. That you know what you're talking about. And during the entire time doing all of that, you meet one-on-one with a mentor coach You work with that coach? Both on. Asking them questions, like getting supervision, essentially. Like I mentioned with, what therapists do as well as like your own stuff. Like what's a, you need to unpack, what's standing in your way. Um, when you think about working with your clients, So a lot of training on that and then finally the, the last step. For the CPNA gram academy. Certification was an inner work retreat, which was again a five. I think mine might've been a six day intensive. Um, and I did that one on site. So it's in Menlo park, California. And I don't know how to describe it. Other than to say it was like a really transformational experience. And it's a really deep. And our work like spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, like, process. And. It was one of the most important things that I think I've done in my life in terms of like helping myself grow and transform, but it was incredibly difficult after, because. It brought up a lot of stuff that I still needed to process and work through. And so now I can see. Some really important three lines. But it was really hard to kind of take off the blinders, so to speak. During that experience and be like, wow, I didn't realize how much all of these different things were impacting my life and like really driving my life without me even noticing it at all. So, those are kind of the basics of that program. And I think things like this are so important because something that I hear from a lot of therapists, and then a lot of coaches who do, Rigorous coaching programs. Is that you're getting a lot of therapy yourself. You're getting a lot of coaching yourself. That's part of the requirement. And I think that there's a huge disservice. When we focus only on. Building skills versus actually doing your own healing and processing work. And so I think that's really valuable. Of course like I did. You can learn from books and interviews, podcasts. I've learned a ton from dialoguing with people and typing interviews and in coaching. In on Instagram or even just like teaching corporate people. Tell me really interesting. Stories and examples of their types showing up. And I've learned so much from all of that. But I think the most important part for me has been that inner work piece. And that's the biggest thing. I too, the biggest difference between now and the episode that I. Shared three years ago where I think that I've done the most like grounding and, transformational work. I will say it's not for the faint of heart. Just know that you're going into something with that level of depth. But I think it's really important to be able to help people really well. And I also think that the level of understanding of the Enneagram that I acquired through that program was so important because I cannot tell you how many times I go into a typing interview and somebody says, well, my therapist insists, I'm this type. My therapist thinks I'm this type or my other coach thinks I'm this type. And it's, it seems to not resonate with that person. And so it's not correct. And. It's not against those therapists, but what I'm saying is that. Different people have different levels of training. So look for somebody who has the level of training that you need. If you are working with somebody with coaching or a typing in particular or anything, Enneagram related. try to find somebody who has a deep level of expertise. Other programs that I think. Also give a deep level of expertise like that would be, the narrative Enneagram, for example, I think that one is, is fantastic. I think they're really similar. I've also heard really good things about the Enneagram Institute, but if you're not wanting to go. You know, to that extent where looking for, A full certification. Also check out the shift network. I'll put links to all these things in the show notes, but the shift network. You can hear from a lot of the same teachers, even if you're not going through their entire certification, which I think is, is pretty great. So, I encourage all of those things. I'm not saying that those are the only programs worth going to, those are the ones that I have heard. From people that I really respect and find reputable that I've heard them talk about those as being really, um, Helpful in terms of understanding the Enneagram and then using it with clients. And, and also doing your own inner work through the process. So in general, no matter what program you choose. There are a few things that I think are really important to consider. One, I think it's really important to. Study the Enneagram for at least a couple of years. before you really start working with clients with the Enneagram now. There are some caveats to that, which is, I think if you have other, training, like other training and coaching or other training as a therapist, And say you start the CPNA grant program or you start the narrative and Adrian program. You probably will want to go ahead and incorporate your learnings into. The work that you're already doing. Because that other work does create a good foundation to add the Instagram on top of. But I see sometimes people, you know, they read one book and they think they're an expert and then they end up doing more harm than good. And so we don't want to do that. I think it's important to think about, whoever you're learning from who are their teachers. Where did their teachers get their training? How long have they been studying the Enneagram? And to what extent and are they doing their own work? And if you want to become a coach, you need to be in coaching. I heard somebody say, when I was doing a coach training, they said, When you're becoming a coach, you should be. Coaching 40% of the time and getting coached 60% of the time. Obviously, that's not always possible, but I think that that's. Really encouraging to remember that you need to be coached to, because you need to understand what that process is like and how it feels to be on that end of. The zoom screen as the case may be. And then think about what other training do you need? Some people might find it beneficial to become an ICF or international coaching Federation, certified life coach. And then get any Graham training as a compliment. ICF coaches have to get CCEs every year and some Enneagram training programs count per CCEs. So that might be something that's helpful. For me, I actually, Did the ICF. Portfolio route, meaning. Building the portfolio of all the trainings that I had done. And then the number of hours that I needed. To actually specifically coach somebody and I did all of the work. And then they, they updated the way that they scored things. And I never turned it in. But I do plan to get, further coach training on top of the Enneagram coaching training I already have because I just love working with people. And I love doing this type of learning, and I want to always be able to support myself and support my clients even better. So I am always learning. And then think about, will you need business training as well? Um, a friend of mine, Kristi rolls has a program where she does both the Enneagram. Part and the business part, which I think is really useful because most of these programs don't talk about that. And in fact, if you are a college student or you're a high schooler and you're listening to this. And you're like, I'm thinking about becoming a coach, or I want to study psychology, please get a business minor at the very minimum. That's something I wish I'd done because even most therapists are contract workers. Meaning. W they're self-employed essentially, and you need to be able to run a business to. Be an individual therapist. That's just. How that works. So, definitely get that business minor or get, you know, Or just Google it because there are so many ways to find that online. So if you're somebody who's damned me about this on Instagram, um, these are some of my initial kind of thoughts. A little bit of my story and how I think you can navigate it. I hope the thing that you took from this from me, even telling my story. Is that throughout my entire life, there have been all these little moments or little pieces that kind of blend together to create. This specific niche coaching career that I have created for myself. So think about what are the things in your life? That are those three lines that are those threads that you can kind of pull together and braid together to make the career that you want. So it doesn't always have to be like, You know, I've always been interested in psychology. I'm sure that you've always been interested in personalities. To some extent if you're listening to this. But maybe you also are like, uh, Gymnast. I don't know. Like, how can you think about. Using the Enneagram. And what you learned about using. Your body, um, And. Put those things together and create like a somatic. Any Graham coaching sort of thing. Maybe you go and get a certification in somatic experiencing, and you get an, any grim certification, um, and think about blending those things together. Like there are so many different ways that you can pull together different. Concepts in different parts of your life, and blend them all together to create what will work best for you and will serve the clients that you want to serve. So I hope. That you kind of take all of those different little things and are able to creatively build something. You're really excited about a business that you really love. And don't be afraid to start it and do it on the side for awhile. You don't have to leap right into the deep end and make it your full-time thing. Most businesses, especially coaching businesses. Take at least 18 months. To be consistently making good money and. Think about how you can like, kind of tip toe in, rather than expecting yourself to be able to like quit your job today and make. A full-time income tomorrow. So finally keep in mind that. Bees different types of trainings and everything. Are important. Like I said, I think they're really valuable, but it's not everything. And you don't have to start at the end. Right. You don't have to expect yourself to be where. I am, if you're just starting now, because I started this whole process. Five years ago. There's a lot of learning and growth that you can do along the way. So my biggest recommendation is never stop learning and studying. Make yourself a lifelong learner of the Enneagram of yourself and of your own personal development. Keep that curiosity alive, as you think about your clients and what will serve them best. And that is the best thing that you can do for yourself. And if you want to become an Enneagram coach, that's the best thing you can do for your clients too. Like I mentioned, I will put links to the programs that I've mentioned here are the ones that I like in the show notes. And. Let me know if you have further questions, I can definitely do a part two where I explain things more thoroughly or talk about. Different programs. Maybe we can even interview different people and hear more about their programs. So feel free to let me know what else I can do to support you on this front. And thank you so much for listening and I'll see you all next week.

Steph Barron Hall 34:43

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify