Self-Discovery as a Heart Type with Heidi Alaniz Critz (4) & Steph Barron Hall (3)

1:38

Hello, and welcome back to Enneagram in real life. A podcast that will help you go beyond any grand theory into practical understanding so that you can apply the Enneagram in your day-to-day life. I'm your host, Steph Baron hall, creator of nine types co on Instagram, author of the Enneagram in love, accredited Enneagram, professional, and ennea curious human, just like you be sure to check out the show notes for more ways to apply the Enneagram and your daily life. Thanks so much for listening and now onto the show.

Steph Barron Hall: 2:10

Well, welcome back to this season of Enneagram in real life. We've taken a bit of a break and now we're coming back with some new updates, which is really exciting for me because I, I'm just excited about them. So I, I've just been brainstorming over this break. Um, as I mentioned before I went on the break, I was, I've been writing a book, um, and it's gonna be about how to use the in agram more in your real life. And so I thought about, what are the things that. really enjoyable for me. I love sitting down and doing interviews, but sometimes I don't as much enjoy just being there by myself, sitting in front of a mic and thinking about, um, like I just, I really prefer the personal connection. So I was thinking, okay, well what if I had a co-host? And I thought that that sounded like a really fun thing to do. So today you're going to meet my new co-host, which we'll be doing some interviews together, and some will be just me, but Heidi will always show up. And, um, we'll chat a bit about the interviews, but if you follow out on Instagram, you've probably already seen or interacted with Heidi because, uh, she has been working with me for about two and a half years, supporting me, as a virtual assistant and doing work like, responding to comments or, or dms, um, on Instagram or responding to emails, scheduling, all that. Good stuff. All the sort of admin stuff that kind of helps me keep my head on straight a bit. It's been super helpful, but I just thought, maybe we could chat more about this in the Enneagram so you'll get to know a little bit more about Heidi. But, she has been kind of going through a similar process. What I, I did with the Agram in terms of attending the Chestnut PIs in Agram Academy. So, um, she's very knowledgeable in the agram and um, has a lot of great experience in writing and editing and, and doing all that kind of stuff with, nine types. So I'm really excited to welcome Heidi to the podcast.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 4:15

Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Um, I love just listening to, um, all of the guests and, um, the interviews like so inspired and so yeah, I'm really excited just to be part of this conversation and yeah, I'm excited.

Steph Barron Hall: 4:33

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it'll be great. And we've already done a few of the episodes for this season, and so we're kind of backtracking and just doing a quick intro. Um, so it'll be really fun to get to know each other a little bit more because, you know, working with Heidi, she gets to know me a little bit. She hears all of my things, reads all my writing, and selfishly now I get to ask some questions, which I am thrilled about. So I think we'll just jump right in. I'm curious, how did you get into the Ingram and learn your.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 5:06

Yes, so I am a type four. Um, I was at a conference and one of the speakers mentioned the Ingram briefly. Um, and a friend at the time, um, just had, you know, all of the friends like take the test. And, um, at that time I didn't really understand like the weight of the Ingram and how complex it was and how delicate you have to be with it, I think especially like typing yourself, typing others and things like that. Um, but uh, yeah, I think at that time it was just easy to be fascinated with like the behaviors. And I think the typing process I got kind of caught up a little bit, um, on just like the behavior side and not really going deeper into like the motivations and things like that. So when I tested, um, I tested as a seven and then my second result was a four. Um, I was in that space for a while, just like trying to figure it out. I really liked the idea of being a seven. Um, but again, like I said, I wasn't really looking too deep into like, the research of it. I was just like, yes, like I love, um, you know, I was very spontaneous and I would probably say like, now it's more like impulsive, I would say, but, um, just like following intensity, like all, I always felt restless when things kind of got dull and, um, like, I think genuinely, that's why I ended up with like, so many animals. Like, I have three cats and like one dog, so I just like followed that intensity, followed like the impulse and things like that. Very energetic. Um, which I, I know now has a lot to do with my, um, subtype, which I, we might talk about that later. But, um, yeah, so I was in that space trying to figure out if I was a seven or a four. Um, someone even mentioned like, you might be an eight because like you approach conflict really well, like you don't. Or I wouldn't say well all the time, but I'm not, I don't really shy away from conflict. And at that time I was like, Ooh, no, I don't feel like, I don't feel like an eight, you know? But yeah, I started diving into the Enneagram, um, and the first book I went through was Ian K's book, and that was the book that actually helped me kind of land my type. Um, so when I listened to the type four chapter, I felt so understood, and it was really cool because Ian Kron himself is a type four. Um, so that was like, oh, like someone is reading my thoughts, or I just felt less alone. Um, I felt validated and, um, yeah, like I wasn't the only one seeing through the lens of how I see the world. So, um but yeah, I remember, uh, listening to those chapters like over and over again, like, oh my gosh, when people listen to this, like they'll understand a little bit of, of me, you know? I think the reflection was a big thing. I think there was a lot that I didn't really want to go deep, um, under, I already considered myself deep, but I think there's a lot underneath that deep part, you know, that kind of just, I didn't really wanna face. And, um, once I really got real with myself, um, yeah, I was like, okay, it's obvious I'm a four and I think really to everyone around me, they probably saw, you know, aspects of a four and so, so yeah, that's how I landed on, on type four.

Steph Barron Hall: 8:20

Yeah, and I think what I'm curious about with that is like, What was it about type four that really resonated? What was it about in, in some ways, like the melancholy or the sadness or those other pieces? Obviously fours aren't sad all the time, but especially when I first met you, like, so we would have like our weekly, uh, phone calls and it's like a 10 minute call. And obviously, you know, you set up your life to be very efficient, so you're like, all right, I gotta get these calls, you know, I gotta get through'em. And it, you're just like, so cheerful, so light, I was like, oh, she's a four, but like, I just get all this like lightness or like cheerfulness. Um, and I think a lot of the forests that I'd met previously, um, had more of a mm, I guess slower. Vibe to them, um, where it was like slow and more thoughtful and, um, and you didn't show up that way. And so I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your reflections on that.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 9:22

Yeah. I I I love that you bring that up cuz that was also something that I was like, okay, maybe I'm not a four, because they talk about. I didn't, I've heard other fours not really like this, uh, um, descriptions like, oh, fours are like e or, but that's kind of like also more now with like the social four they say. But I'm sure like nobody likes being called E or anyways, but, um, I just really got hung up with, ah, I'm just not like, it's different because I, I sometimes I do like to ki or not like it, there's something addictive with a, with like, um, sitting in that intensity of emotion ev if it's like ne like even sad or like it's hurt, it, it's hurting. There's something addictive about that. But like how I presented myself to the world and usually like, I'm very like, yeah, high energy. people always said, You're just so happy and your color's yellow and you know, and I was like, I don't feel like my color's yellow, but okay, but like, whatever. And, um, and so yeah, that was really hard to like, kind of pick at the beginning. I didn't really know what melancholy meant when, you know, especially we talked about like the fixation of like type four, but, um, that was just like really hard to, that was like the stuff that I really had to like, get underneath where it's like, okay, how am I really feeling about this? How is this like actually affecting like me? Um, but yeah, that's what I didn't really resonate with the type four. It, it, it felt heavy. And while I can be heavy, there are certain moments where like I experience high highs and low low. So like, I do experience those lows sometimes, like, like, I do get discouraged easily, you know, I do shut down, but most of the time, like when, especially how I show up in work or like social situations, yeah. I'm usually like, it's very different, very high energy, very, I dunno, in, in terms of like how I showed up with you for work that was like different, different. That was

Steph Barron Hall: 11:29

Wait, why?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 11:30

well for work now I'm like, okay, I have to show up differently because like, I need, like this person is paying me and I need to make them feel confident that like I have their stuff taken care of, you know? And so I, yeah, I was like, okay, got it. Like, you know, I'm writing all this stuff down, but I will say after a while that has helped me like actually create those good habits of like, okay, getting stuff done, like being a little bit more organized. That actually has helped. But that was a lot. That was, I think, a, like I was putting up a lot, um, uh, in a way to like show up differently, you know? I was trying really hard to do that, so,

Steph Barron Hall: 12:10

Yeah. Huh. That's really interesting. Yeah, that's really good insight too, and I love that you pointed out that everyone else is like, your color is yellow and you're like, oh, I don't feel yellow. And I feel like something just to highlight with that is with type four one, it's, there's a lot of intensity, especially with your subtype, which we'll talk about, but there's also a lot of, like wrestling, there's a lot of complexity. There's a lot of like, um, Like I recently asked before, what is your relationship to your emotions? Like, what, you know, what is that like? And this person said, well, what do you mean? Like, is it the depth, the breadth or the complexity? Like, which one are you asking about? And I was like, those are not words that I think about when I think about feelings. Right? Like, I don't think like in those terms. Um, and it's more of like just that whole sort of like nuance and complexity and like intensity and the wrestling and all that stuff that's there.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 13:10

Ew. I love, I love that, I love all the descriptive words of, like, these types of ways to feel and, and describe your emotions. I mean, yeah, it's, it was like really eye-opening to realize how much I did rely on my emotions and how much of that, like, described who I was. So yeah, that was, that was a big eye-opener too, but, oh, I love that. So I'm actually curious, um, about you, what was your typing process? And you've shared a little bit about, you know, your experience already, but I'm curious, yeah. How are you introduced to the Ne Graham? How did you land on type three?

Steph Barron Hall: 13:43

Yeah. So funny enough, I, I had actually seen somebody in their Instagram bio. They had four W nine and I was like, the hell does that mean? Um, obviously now we know, they didn't know either what that meant. Um, but, so, no, my husband Brandon heard about the Enneagram on a podcast, um, and he took the ready, the Zo Hudson Enneagram type I. Printed out the results, gave them to me. I was like, eh, sounds about right. You know? But at the time I was actually interested in this other, um, system that I was using at work that was also motivation based, which I really loved. Um, I had used different things like Myers-Briggs and Disk before, um, in the workplace. But I really liked that it was motivation. I, I felt that was a lot more, um, like it just hit home in a different way. But then, of course, you know, a few months later, but I, I kind of just brushed it off, like I dismissed it cause I was like, eh, whatever, you know. So a few months later, um, my older sister actually told me like, you have to get into the Ingram. And so I was like, okay, fine. You know, cause I have to do what she says. Um, apparently. Uh, so that's a joke, Kaylee, um, in case she listens. Um, no, but, so she had me take it and, um, Immediately, like the achiever popped up on the screen and I was like, yes, the achiever, like I won. And then pretty soon thereafter I started reading more and I was like, oh, I actually hate this. Like, can I please be a different type? You know? So then when, when the wrote back to you, the, um, Byan, Kron and Suzanne Steel, when that came out? I think it was maybe, so this all happened 2015 or 2016. So when that, that book came out in 2016, I read it and I was like, yeah, I see so much of myself. But I think the thing I felt embarrassed about was, this sense of like, oh, other people can, can see me. like how I always think of it is on Parks and Rec. When there's that, that episode. They all go bowling and Tom is like doing the granny bowl and Ron Swanson is like, son, people can see you. Like, that is the feeling that I have a lot. Like, like, oh my God, people can see me. And so cuz what, what was actually happening beneath the surface was I had started noticing, okay, I actually do this weird thing where I'm different in these different scenarios. And I always thought I was like really genuine and really authentic and, and all this stuff. And then I started realizing like, oh my gosh, even though these do feel like different versions of me, it feels like I have to have these different versions to kind of keep everything together. And so I started noticing that and then I started noticing. That I didn't really like that about myself, and that that felt really embarrassing. And so the people can see you aspect was really a feeling of being exposed, like as if, oh, all of a sudden I am not fooling anyone. You know? And I think I've always been a bit self-critical. Um, that might be the understatement of the century. Um, but so I think I started just noticing more and more ways that I was like, oh, I just like, don't like the, these things about myself. Um, and I don't know, I've talked to a lot of threes who are like, I love being a three. And I think for me, I, I think it really pained me how much I cared what other people thought about me. And so while, yes, I did like the ability to just turn it on and get stuff done, I kind of started noticing that like, one, I was running myself ragged. Because I would just have, you know, 5 billion things on my to-do list for the day. And then I would be like, Ugh, I didn't get anything done when, you know, obviously my husband would be like, um, you got all these different things done. It's just that you had really unrealistic expectations for yourself. Um, and then yeah, just how often a lot of those things were maybe in service of other people, like what other people could see. But I wasn't doing the work that no one was gonna see. That was really important for me. Um, so that started coming up a lot. Um, Yeah, that's pretty much how I learned my type. And then I became, uh, one of those monsters who like demands that everyone find their Ingram type. Um, and then pretty soon thereafter, I, I started actually, like, like people actually started asking me to come teach it and, and everything. And so I started doing that, but then I started really delving into it in a deeper way. And I think I pretty quickly was like, oh, there's so much more to this. You know, kind of like you, you've found too. so um, yeah, it was a bit of a process, but

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 18:45

Yeah. That's so fascinating to hear, to hear that story. Um, I'm also curious to know about how you experience, um, well, we'll type threes or heart types. I mean, we're like in the heart triad together. what is your experience about, uh, around emotions?

Steph Barron Hall: 19:03

Yeah. So, um, Growing up I definitely always heard like, you're too sensitive, you're so sensitive, you know? Um, which we love to hear. Uh, but I think there's truth to that, you know? Um, it's just that I don't think it's a bad thing now. Um, I think when you don't know what to do with that, when you're a kid, it can be hard on other people. Right. Um, but yeah, I think being so sensitive, I also always had t-shirts, like, there's no crying in basketball or whatever, you know? So I had like this whole narrative around like, yes, I feel really sensitive, but that's really a way that I shouldn't be. And so I think moving into college and then, you know, my first jobs, I really bottled all of that up. Um, and I was a lot more focused on being productive and like just getting stuff done. And so, um, I remember getting some feedback that I, I seemed to not really care about my, the people on my team when I was, um, I think I was 23 when I became a manager. I had, you know, 15 people on my team. Um, and it, it could be intense at times, you know, and so I think that people. Sometimes gave feedback that I, I didn't seem like I cared very much, or I just seemed, um, like lacking in compassion and I was like, oh man, I, that's not how I feel at all. But I could understand that if I feel like it's too vulnerable to, to show that I care that that, you know, people would see that side of me. Um, and so I think I really had my emotions bottled up. Not to say that I didn't have like expressions of them. I think when you bottle things up, you end up having more outbursts and stuff like that. But, um, it was just this process of learning, like, when am I feeling an emotion and what is that feeling like? Um, and so learning to tune into that a little bit more and actually be more true to, to not what other people are feeling, but what I'm feeling about me and what I'm feeling about myself. So that process of emotional development and literally like. Expanding my language, cuz the first time I remember having like this big epiphany around experiencing emotion. I, I was like, I described it as feeling icky.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 21:29

Mm.

Steph Barron Hall: 21:30

Like I just didn't have words for that. I did not have words. Um, and so I think that's been a really important part of my growth process over the last eight years. I can't believe it's been that long, but, um, just developing more, um, awareness and like more, um, curiosity rather than just setting it aside and pushing forward. And now I kind of feel like I'm broken because I don't have, I don't, I feel like in some ways I don't have that same three gear that I used to have where I could just set everything aside and like push on. It's like, It's kind of an interesting thing where it's like, no, I like these things matter and like they actually, it actually matters how I feel. It actually matters if I'm doing well or not today, and I need to take care of myself. And so I can't just be like, let's put that on the shelf for next week and never get to it, you know?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 22:26

Yeah. That's so interesting cuz also, um, Uh, Beatrice and iRANO, uh, they talk about how like in Western society, like threes, they're often rewarded for that. And it's usually like, ugh, such a hard, it, it feel like when you're doing that work, it can feel total like opposite. Like, whoa, this is like, you know, just so different, you know? Um, so yeah. That's, that's, that's fascinating.

Steph Barron Hall: 22:54

Yeah. And I think, you know, they talk a lot about feeling the pain of actually. Recognizing, oh, I'm really out of touch with myself. And, and to actually slow down and look at that, it's really painful. Um, but like they always say the three is the heart of the heart center. And there are certainly times when I'm like, I wish I could just put it all back, just put it all back where it was, you know, like put the emotions away, sit down and, you know, get more done, whatever. Um, but I think it's just a process of being able to navigate. Like, like I think what I noticed now is that I can't do something if my heart's not in it anymore.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 23:36

Yeah. Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 23:38

And it sounds like that was like a spiritual thing for you, lesson two. And for me that's like, it's, it's almost like I, I don't like that.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 23:49

Mm. Yeah. And I'm like, yes. Like that's beautiful. Like,

Steph Barron Hall: 23:54

All right.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 23:56

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 23:56

Yeah. It's interesting to, to try to find, the right balance, but it's all a process. So, okay. So enough about me. Um, so for you, what was the most glaring evidence of your type?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 24:09

Yeah. Okay. This is a great question. I would say the biggest thing that I was like, okay, this I am a type four, is not being able to just be present. I was living so much in the past, um, and even like idealizing the future a little bit, and I think that's another thing that I was like, I'm always in my imagination or, you know, type sevens also do that, but I. Wasting time in that. Um, like I would always just kind of sit in that. Um, but yeah, I had, I had so much longing, like something was always missing. Um, I was always like unhappy with something. Like even if like now I'm able to see it, see a little easier that like everything around me is actually wonderful, you know? And so, um, I noticed how much time I was wasting and indulging in that space and, and like actually missing the moment that was happening in front of me. And so, um, yeah, I think that's when I actually found like the value of like working with the Ingram cuz being able to actually like, name this cycle and like seeing that in the moment like is key and like, was key for me. Um, because now when that shows up, like I can tell myself that that's just like a false belief and like move forward from there. Um, but that took a really long time and, and I'm, that's always still gonna come up, but, um, That was like the thing that, man, it just felt like it was like weighing me down. Like that's when I actually had to start doing work because yeah, it, that was just like a big thing for me.

Steph Barron Hall: 25:48

Yeah, that's really helpful, I think too, because it kind of highlights that when we talk about the Ingram, we're talking about what's underneath, you know, versus what we're seeing externally.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 25:59

Yeah. Um, I think like a great way to put it would be like I had to let myself be happy and like let myself enjoy the thing, like my decisions that I made, like, you know what I mean? Uh, it's really interesting, um, cuz obviously I feel like to some people they're like, well, yeah, like, that's so easy, but. That was just so heavy on me. Um, but yeah, like I said, it's a little bit addicting to kind of stay in that space, stay in that unhappiness. But like, once I let myself be happy, that was like a major shift. yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I'm just like, really tha I'm just so thankful for the Enneagram cuz it helped me like name that and like, honestly, that just means a lot. So

Steph Barron Hall: 26:41

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 26:44

What about you? Um, did you have any glaring evidence that you're like, okay, duh. Like that's a type three pattern

Steph Barron Hall: 26:50

Well, I think part of it was that I was just always like, I would be bored for five seconds and I would just find something else, which I think some people think of as a seven thing. Um, but I think for me it was evidence of the type three. So for example, like I was working a full-time job. I started a flower business. I would go to the flower mart before, like in downtown LA before my job started. Um, I would get all the stuff, like all the florals and the greenery and everything. I would pack it in the back of my car. Sometimes I would actually go home, drop it off at home, and then go back to work. My shifts start at nine, um, or sometimes I would leave it in my car depending on the weather, or I would take it in, like I would get permission to like hold it in in the um, office because I would do wedding and event florals. On the weekends or like after work. So I, I literally was constantly working. Like I was always doing something. Yes, it was like a passion and I loved it, but it was also work. And um, anyone who's done that type of of work is, um, knows that it's like manual labor. Like yes, you're making something beautiful. And people kind of have this assumption that doing like wedding florals is like this fun and fluffy and like you're making things pretty and it's like, yes, but you're also carrying five gallon buckets of water up and downstairs, like constantly. Um, you know, your, your nails always look like crap and they're always like, your hands are cut up from the roses and all that kind of stuff, you know? So it's like that sort of hard work. I liked it, but I also was really ambitious about it and I was like, okay, I wanna get featured in like style me pretty green wedding shoes. I don't remember ruffled, you know, the, whatever the big blogs were at the time. But then once I did that, I was, I totally lost interest, right? So then I was like, okay, well what's next? Um, and then I was like, okay, well I wanna run. My sisters have both run, you know, a half marathon. I'm gonna run a half marathon. So I started training for that. Um, and then the same month that I ran my half marathon, I started, um, grad school. so it was just like things back to back to back to back. Um, and like my entire life was like that, like stacked upon each other. And it was this sense of really wanting to be productive and like wanting to be admired. Like, I think the thing that people like three is I think care about relationships. Definitely that's part of being a heart type, but, It's not like to be liked, like for twos or to be loved. It's like being admired, being valuable, being like people seeing you and being like, oh, wow. You know, like, that's impressive. And so I think that those things were like the most glaring evidence. Um, and it really propelled me into even starting, you know, this business, which I started in 2017. So it's just really basically planning my life to where I didn't have any downtime ever.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 30:00

yeah. Mm. Um, I'm curious, uh, they say, well, they, when I say they, um, I'm studying under Beatrice Chestnut and pi. Um, but they often say like, for threes, stopping feels like dying. So I'm curious if that's what you're describing,

Steph Barron Hall: 30:18

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think the time that felt like dying was, well, I'll mention two things. One was I, um, I was doing a friend's wedding and for some reason, God knows why I said, yeah, I'll coordinate too. Right? Stupid Stu, I am not that person. Okay? I admire wedding and event coordinators. That is not an easy job, and I'm not her. Okay? So I was coordinating and I was doing florals, and I took a. Day off work or two days? I can't recall. I think just one, um, got all the florals, packed it all in. I went to, I also was using this, um, rose vendor cuz I loved like the fresh light roses, you know. Um, anyway, so, you know, I went, like, drove all over Los Angeles essentially. Okay. So, so that's what you need to know. You don't need to know the specifics. Um, the wedding was at my friend's house and I, her, her, you know, the lot is not that big, but I, I walked 25,000 steps that day just on her lot basically. And I got home and I was exhausted and Brandon was like, okay, like, do you want me to draw you a bath? And I was like, yeah, that sounds great. You know. So by the time he came back out to the entryway, I was asleep on the floor and. It was like, and that wasn't even the wedding day, that was just the day before for

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 32:01

Oh wow. Wow.

Steph Barron Hall: 32:04

So I think it's like stuff like that or, um, when I did actually, like I, I, in 2019, I quit my job. I moved, you know, had this big life change. Um, and we moved in with my in-laws for a bit. Um, which, you know, I wassup super grateful just to have a space and like, I didn't really have to worry about a lot. It's not like I was decorating or putting things away or, you know, any of the normal tasks that I would've had. Um, and so, and then I was trying to run my business. I had no clue what I was doing. And I just remember being like, oh God, I have. Because I can't focus for a second. And I think in reality, maybe part of it was just that for the first time ever, I didn't have somebody else telling me what to do, and I had no idea what to do with that. Um, and so I think those two examples kind of are like that crash and burn moment. But even, you know, as listeners will hear later on in the season, we have Taylor Lisa Morrison come on, and she talks about cycles of burnout. She's also a three. Um, and we just resonated so much on that tendency to get into that, that mode.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 33:17

Wow. Ugh. The fact that you even just fell asleep at the door and, and all of that, like, I can't imagine. Ugh.

Steph Barron Hall: 33:25

Yeah. Well, and that's what I mean when I say like, I feel like sometimes like I don't have that gear anymore because I just don't run myself into the ground in that same way. Um, maybe that's not true, but perhaps I think so when I am, you know, grinding in that same way now I think a lot more about how it's not good for me. And at the time, that was not a thought that I had. You could not have told me that that was not good for me. And now I'm like, oh, this is very much not good for me And this also has to get done. So how do I balance those ideas, you

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 34:04

right. And I think that's, yeah, all part of that growth process and kind of discerning all of that. but yeah, I, I think it's interesting, um, what I hear with like threes is usually what ends up slowing them down is like their own bodies telling them, okay, that's a lot, you

Steph Barron Hall: 34:19

Oh Yeah. Yeah. Like ha literally panic attacks. Um, being in the hospital, like I've heard so many threes, they like don't even notice it until they're at that point, so.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 34:31

Well, well, that's all helpful. Yeah. Thanks for sharing all that.

Steph Barron Hall: 34:35

Yeah. You're welcome. Didn't ask for it, but there you go. Um, I know you love the, the deep dive.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 34:41

True, true.

Steph Barron Hall: 34:44

Um, do you have any examples that you can kind of think of, of like a passion based personality pattern? Like for type four, the passion of envy?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 34:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so with Envy specifically, I think that was really hard for me to kind of click with, um, like envy is seeing something that someone else has or seeing something out outside of me that I want to take in, and that I kind of long for that I, I want that. And so, Before, I would be like, oh, I don't care what this person is doing, like I'm doing my own thing. And like that, like, you know, that's separate. That's different. I don't care what they have to say, like, I'm doing my own thing. But like, it's crazy. Like, I, like, I mean, it's now it's everywhere. I mean probably like still in places that I haven't even noticed yet, you know? But like, I think a clear example would be, um, like the quote it factor, um, like I would watch American Idol, like I would watch all these competition shows, um, when I was younger. And like I love that. Um, and when I would watch these shows, like the judges would sometimes tell contestants like, you just have the it factor, or like, I just know you've got it. Like, you know, I just know. And, um, like as a four, like wanting to be like special and unique, like I would just like, Well, I would envy that. Like, oh, like what, what is the it factor? Like I want that, like I want that. Um, and then sometimes, like I said, like as a four and wanting to be special, like, and even believing that like, I am unique, I am special. I would think, oh, I have that. Like I, I know I have that if I went up on stage, like they would tell me that, you know? But I think a lot of that, what I was missing is that like, people do put a lot of dedication and time into like mastering these skills, you know? But like in my mind I would think, okay, these people are born with whatever that is, you know, like, and I just will never attain that. Like they have something that I just can never, you know, work toward or whatever. But that's a false belief, whatever. I don't know. Does that, does that all kind of make sense? Like as I'm kind of explaining that,

Steph Barron Hall: 36:56

So yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I'm curious what, in what ways your definition of envy change from when you started, when you kind of like first heard that the passion was envy and now, and, and like, you kind of see it a lot now. You can kind of observe at various places.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 37:14

Yeah, yeah. yeah. So now I kind of see it as like, just kind of like little things everywhere. Like, um, what I have isn't. Good enough. Kind of what I was talking about earlier. Like again, seeing something outside and like, if only I had that, like my life would be, oh, just so much better. And like, I think that's even with like, oh, I hate this so much, but I'm gonna say it like, if I see it like on TikTok or whatever, like any, um, I don't know, someone's like promoting, I don't know, these like cute sunglasses or like, I don't know, just like something really cute. I'm just like, okay, I gotta get that because oh this is so cringey cuz I hate this. I like res, I hate this about like, like I look down

Steph Barron Hall: 37:57

passions are always so

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 37:58

know, and I like kind of judge other people doing that. Like, uh, come on, like, be your own self girl. Like whatever. Um, but no, I find myself doing that. Like if, if only like, okay, I love her aesthetic. I love her look, she looks confident, like whatever. And so like, um, I'm gonna get that. I'll, I'll take that, you know, I'll buy it. And that's like a lot of impulse stuff too. Like that's, um, a big thing for me too. But, um, yeah, so it's like little stuff like that, it's just like, yeah, if only, if only I had this, if only I live here, if only whatever, my life would just be so much better. But that's not true because I have a lot of great things here that I've been missing out on anyways, but that's like envy there. Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 38:40

Yeah, and it's like, oh, like she has something that, like some ineffable quality that I need.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 38:49

Yeah. And it's weird again, it's so weird and kind of confusing because then especially like, um, as a sexual four, and that's my subtype. I also think that like, In a way I have that, that others don't like. Man. She probably wishes I, she was like, me. Like, that is so messed up. Uhuh. But then it's, it's like both, you know, it's, but that's, that's like a way it's, yeah. It's weird. It's so weird kind of figuring all of that out, but a hundred percent Yeah. What you, what you said.

Steph Barron Hall: 39:19

Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Um, yeah. Okay. So you wanna hear about self deceit?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 39:25

Yeah. Girl. Share it. Share it all about self deceit?

Steph Barron Hall: 39:30

So I think one thing to note here is that sometimes the passion of type three is um, labeled as deceit. And in some books it's actually labeled as vanity. Um, the way that our teachers biran teach it now, um, they actually call self deceit, the passion and vanity, the fixation of the type. Um, but, and if you wanna know more about passions, I'll link a quick article about that that you could grab or I have a free download that you can grab. Um, but with self deceit, I think the self part is important because it's not that threes just are trying to lie to everyone, it's that they've tricked themselves into believing that who they appear to be as who that they, who they are. Um, so one way I've seen this show up for me is, It's so hard for me to show up online when I'm struggling, like to show up on Instagram or even to do the podcast or, or to like, let other people see that I'm struggling. Um, I think during the winter, probably it was like seasonal depression, but also just like so much intense stress around writing my book and then, you know, feeling things about the feelings, right? To like, oh my God, I should be farther along by, by now. And then like all that kind of stuff. Um, and almost like if I don't let people see I'm struggling, then I'm not. But that's not how that works because how like changing somebody else's perception of you does not change the reality. Um, and that's really hard as a three to, to understand and to to navigate because um, there's just like this internal belief, like, I can make it all different. I can reframe your perception of me, um, or the way that you see the world and. In reality, even if I can change the perception, which sometimes I think threes, I think we believe we're a lot more, at least I believe I'm a lot more successful at that than I am. Like, if I don't show that I'm a mess, then I'm not a mess. It's like, no, no, no. I can see like people can see you, like people can see you're a mess, you know? Um, and so I think that's one of the big ways that that shows up for me. Um, and that's one of the things that can at times make it hard to like really look at myself cuz it's like, it's almost like this belief of like, if I see it, if I see it about myself, if I see this negative quality or whatever, um, or this way that I need to improve. Then can other people see it? And does that mean it's true? And what I think I miss in that is like, it's true either way. It's, it's just, it is reality either way. Even if you can see it or if you're deciding not to see it, like it's there. It's true. Um, and so I think that's a big way that self dece shows up.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 42:17

Mm. Yeah. I like the way you described that. I'm curious to hear about your subtype, how you found your subtype, and what that looks like.

Steph Barron Hall: 42:29

so it was a bit of a journey and I actually think that one, that's kind of indicative of my subtype, but also just to encourage anyone who has a hard time with that, like I also had a really hard time with that. Um, even though I was pretty quickly like, yep, this is my type, figuring out my subtype was more challenging. Um, so the first time I read the Complete N Agram by Beatrice Chestnut, um, the only subtypes I resonated with in the whole book were self pres four and self press seven. The rest of them I was like, me. Which was weird cuz I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm a three. Like I'm pretty sure, so I took, um, the I EQ nine. So the integrative nine Ngram Solutions. I EQ nine. Um, and I actually think that's a really good assessment. I am certified in it. So you know, if you wanna talk about your results, you can hit me up. Um, but I got self press three and I thought that made sense at the time. I was also reading, um, the Wisdom of the Ingram by Ray Hudson and. The way that I understood self pres, like the self-preservation subtype from that book really seemed to, to click with, you know, how I showed up. And so I was like, okay, yeah, like that seems to make sense to me. Um, but I really just did not think that I could be the sexual or the social subtypes. Um, and one of the things that really clicked about self press was not liking to be in the spotlight. So I do really like giving talks. Like I love speaking about the Enneagram, like being on stage in that sense, but it's not about me. Like it's about helping people understand the engram. If I had to talk about myself up there, I would have a very hard time. Um, So, so that seemed to click from the self pres perspective, but I was kind of always like, I feel like I'm more emotional than the self press is described. And I'm not, like, I'm very anxious, don't get me wrong. Like I have anxiety, you know, up the walls, but like it's, uh, it's not quite the same. Like I quit my job with no real plan. Like I had a vague plan. I didn't have a real plan though, and I just was like, well, it'll, it'll work out. It'll be fine. And I just have a tendency to do stuff like that. So, you know, impulsive, right? So I thought self press, and then I started work doing, um, some more work with Biran and I was like, okay, I think I'm social because the way that they describe the social, um, it's almost like a doubling down on the image piece. And that seemed to make sense for me. I was like, okay, that, that clicks, you know? Um, And, and like wanting people to see this like flawless image of you, um, and kind of managing that a lot. That makes sense. But the thing that never really clicked was social threes are kind of, um, painted as like almost braggadocious in a bad way, but even like in a more positive way, I think they're painted as always really confident in their abilities and really like having this idea of themselves, of like, I can just do whatever I set my mind to. And I, I always do a good job. And not to say that they like, don't ever have self-doubts, but like, it seemed like social threes are not plagued by self-doubt in the way that I am. Um, and so it was actually about a year ago where I was meeting in this book group with these other women from, um, the CP and immigrant program. And one of them was like, so why do you think that you're social again? And I started to try to describe it and I was like, I don't know, I'm not. And I realized, like I had never looked at the sexual subtype. And I think it's because I knew somebody else who was a sexual subtype so I started looking into it and I was like, oh yeah, like I'm definitely the sexual subtype. And um, once I really read it again and the complete Enneagram, it really clicked. And so when I went to, um, part of our program that, that we're both in, you're required to do, um, a five day or six day, I think it's five day. Retreat, like inner work retreat and so on that retreat it was also just even more confirmed, like the things that I really needed to work on were related to, um, the sexual three in particular. Um, which I know you have more questions about. But, um, I also think what's kind of funny is like one of the ways that the sexual three is described as like more sweet and shy and introverted.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 47:14

Hmm.

Steph Barron Hall: 47:15

And I think in the past, I don't know if I would've described myself that way. People would always say, oh, you're so sweet. And I was like, you just don't know me then cuz I'm not really like that. But I think that's how I come across because, um, at times, maybe not to everyone, but, um, because I'm, I don't know, I think it's, it's more of the sensitivity, like we were talking about earlier that comes.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 47:36

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and also like with the sexual three, It's often described as like maybe feeling more insecure, um, more like on the outside. I don't get that at all, and I'm sure other people don't get that, you know, so I'm curious to hear more about that. And then also you mentioned, um, you're more focused on like, not on your product or, you know, promoting yourself, but promoting others. And I'm curious to hear more about that, like both of those.

Steph Barron Hall: 48:07

Yeah. Um, yeah, so I think the insecurity is like, um, it's this function of, of really wanting to merge with somebody else. Um, so that's part of like the sexual, and I, I, I'd be curious to hear your, your reaction to that, but part of the sexual instinct overall is like having this desire to really strongly merge with somebody else. Um, It's also like, um, how do I describe this? So like when we talk about self deceit, so how this specific other person sees me is the way that I am. So if I emerge with somebody who thinks I'm amazing and awesome, great, I'm amazing and awesome. If I merge with somebody who sees me as a full human with flaws, what I see reflected back to me can be more of those flaws, right? So, um, I think that there's like this underlying, like who am I question turning beneath the surface? And like B says, sexualized and sexual threes know themselves the least because so much attention is on the other person, the specific other person or whoever you're trying to like, have chemistry with and so that's a very subconscious thing though. Like I don't, I don't know that I'm doing that. Um, and so it's much more focused on not everyone else. So the social is focused on more so on like broad swaths of people. The sexual is more focused on, um, like a specific person, whether that's finding chemistry with a person. Tailoring your personality to fit exactly what that person wants and being the ideal for that person. Or it's, um, promoting that specific other person. And so one thing I've just noticed for myself is, like, with Instagram, it's always been difficult for me cause I'm like, why would people care like, about what I'm doing or like, what, what's going on in my life? Like, they're here for the engram, they don't care about that stuff. So, um, that's definitely where my growth work is these days. Um, it's tough.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 50:15

Ooh, that is, man, I feel like I learned so much. That's so fascinating. And I feel like, yeah, I mean, that's all part of the process of like kind of figuring all this out and, and really kind of seeing all of this, but wow. Yeah. That was really helpful.

Steph Barron Hall: 50:30

And it's vulnerable too, right? Cuz it's like, I know all that stuff is really unhealthy to think, but I'm just telling you what the subconscious messaging is that I'm working on. Um, not that like, this is how you should be as a three. Definitely don't be like, Don't, don't do what I do. I mean, maybe do what I do, but don't think what I think. Right. Like cuz all the growth work, it just takes longer than we expect to actually take hold.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 50:56

Absolutely. And then, and then, yeah, just like in sharing all of this, it's just like hoping that like someone else will just understand and, and not feel so alone. And that's what I kind of think, like it's kind of cringey, but it's just if it can help someone else. Yeah. That's really helpful.

Steph Barron Hall: 51:10

Oh yeah. Yeah. Subtypes are real cringy.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 51:13

Y they are. Oh my

Steph Barron Hall: 51:14

Yeah. So tell us more about your subtype. You mentioned sexual four. Um, how did you come to find that and what was that process like for you?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 51:23

Yeah. So talk about Corgi. I feel like, man, the, the subtype descriptions are really raw as they should be because, um, as you talked about in like your process, I think narrowing down the main type that was like, that was key. And then for me, like as growth really started to. It's like to focus down on my growth of like what I actually needed to work on. I mean, like, like, I guess, and I'm saying, uh, some of the patterns that I didn't really like that I was, uh, like as a sexual for, um, yeah, narrowing down the subtype is really helpful. So what that process was like. Um, I mean, very recent. I would say probably within this year, um, like within a year span, um, I just decided, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and sit down with these descriptions and I'm ready to just figure out what I, what I resonate with. And that was pretty difficult. Um, I was going in between like social and the sexual subtype. Um, I wanted to be like, I envied the self press for, um, as like that just seemed like the most. I don't wanna, like, just in my head, in my experience, I just wanted to be that because they seemed like they were really efficient. They got things done without, you know, showing too much emotion or anger or like whatever. And so anyways, um, when I sat down with the descriptions, they talked about, um, kind of like externalizing the suffering. Um, cuz you know, um, like fours just have this connection to like suffering and so how sexual fours kind of experience that is, it shows up as anger like outwardly and they're very like, we're not really afraid to kind of just say what we need, what we want. It can almost be like demanding or even like, you know, we just wanna be kind of taken care of and, and almost like blaming the other when we don't feel that way, which is, that was a big, big, big thing for me. And I'm so glad. Like, I can notice that now because I, you know, I think for sexual fours, especially in my experience, you kind of recognize like these patterns aren't really like the best for the people around us. You know, like it can be really hurtful. And so, and, and that's kind of what I ex experiencing. Like I, I was, um, as I was kind of reflecting through the descriptions, um, again, it talked about anger and they say like, sexual force is like one of the most like angry out of all 27 subtypes. And, um, I was like, well do, am I angry? And I realized that I used to base whether or not I had a good day on, if I was outwardly angry. And that was every single day. And I was like, okay, let's be real. Um, I think what was also helpful with narrowing down on my subtype is be in Iranian talk about, okay, when you look at your subtype, you're trying to find your subtype. Don't think about how you feel. Because I felt like a social form. Like I felt always, I really resonated with the sadness. Like I felt like, you know, I just felt differently, but outwardly, like, what's the evidence over your lifetime? Like, what's the evidence that you actually see? So that is what, um, kind of helped me narrow down. But even again, recently, as you said, it's, it's hard to find your subtype. I mean, as you kind of go through, um, like continuing on like using the Enneagram, um, I even like, just like a few months ago was like, okay, am I, am I a social? Like am I a social for? Um, but how it was described to me was really helpful. Um, cuz, cuz what I would say is like, okay with the anger thing, um, it wouldn't. Like for the people closest to me, they've, they've seen it the most, like they've seen it outwardly, like, and maybe strangers, like maybe sometimes, like, it can be easier for me to kind of lash out that way. But like in my social situations, people I work with friends, they don't really see like that big, like, out like outlash of like anger. And so I was confused. I was like, it's just not consistent that way. And um, the person I was talking with was like, okay, well how do they, how do your friends describe you? And I mentioned like, they, my, they say that my color is yellow and all that stuff. She was like, okay, well, like self presents can sometimes be labeled yellow, but like sexuals, like they're, they're just like energetic, you know, like they, um, bring a lot of intensity and, and all that stuff. And I, I really resonated with that. And um, I was like, okay, I can kind of rest in the fact that like I am a sexual four, which is really nice. Cuz then I didn't wanna be like, oh, am I wrong? Like, I don't even know myself. Like whatever. But yeah, that's kind of what, how I landed on the subtype.

Steph Barron Hall: 56:09

Yeah. So I think one thing that, you know, that is also written a lot about with the sexual four is like this dichotomy between superior and inferior. And I'm like, it's almost like, um, like, there's no equanimity, right? That's, that's the virtue. So, so everyone, like, I'm either superior or inferior to everyone. And I'm curious how you've seen that show up.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 56:33

Oh, yes. yes. yes. And then this is also is kind of a cringey thing as well. And it's funny because I, it's like I wish, like no one would really know this about me, but like, I'm sure it's very obvious, like to some people around me, like at certain times in my life, like, okay, that's obvious. Like, you're just trying to one up this person all the time. So embarrassing, you know? But, um, I think before I even started working, like with the Enneagram, um, I've had to like come to a realization that like there's space for everyone. There's room for everyone at the table, including me, like including myself, you know, And, um, like you said, like equanimity. Um, and Beatrice talks about like how sexual fours have like an all or nothing belief, like related to success. So like, if success, um, is not all theirs, then they're left with nothing. And so that is like the big, like, pull. So yeah, I, I mean, I feel like it's now walking into a space where like if I, if I like just walking into the space saying like, okay, I am not worse, or I'm not better than anyone. I'm just gonna come into this space without expectations, you know, and just like go from there. Because there's times where like I've gone into a space like feeling superior and girl like that. That was like, I got the notch, like taken out from under me real fast. Like, you know, so I mean, but I've kind of learned the hard way, you know, but then also, like everyone has value. Like everyone has something to say, like, you can learn from everyone. Like, you know what I mean? And so just like, that's something that like, I've really just had to Yeah. Well that's all part of the process, right? So yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of, uh, how that works, you know? Just, I mean, it's, I feel like just in general, like, well, we talk about equanimity, that's like the virtue of, um, type four. But yeah, again, very high highs, very low lows. And that's just like how I see everything. Just how I feel about myself. Like either up here or down here, like, you know. So yeah, that's how that

Steph Barron Hall: 58:35

It's all like the polarities. Yeah.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 58:37

Ah, Yeah. Absolut.

Steph Barron Hall: 58:38

Yeah. Yeah. That, that makes sense to me too, because I recently heard a, a sexual force saying, um, well if it, if it doesn't start now, it's never going to. And it's like, well, I mean, I don't know how true that is. like it's not now or never ever, like with most things, it's never, now, or

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 58:57

That's so good. I feel like even now, like it, like I'm like, Hey, duh. Like now after I think about it. But I, I resonate with that. Like I feel that deeply, like so often, like even I was, as I was younger, I was like in high school, like 17 years old thinking, oh my gosh, man, my time is up. Like I can't ever get that time, that time back.

Steph Barron Hall: 59:17

What,

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 59:17

know,

Steph Barron Hall: 59:18

is that? Why are sexual force obsessed with aging? Okay. If you're out there, you're a sexual force, can you please come talk with us about this? Because let's have some more sexual force on the podcast. Hear what they think about this. Because like I, that's something that drives me

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 59:31

Yeah, me too.

Steph Barron Hall: 59:32

okay. Because part of it is because I have been doing all this research around self-perception, right? Um, which is actually one of the things that I think we'll talk about this more, but one of the things where I'm like, kind of wary of, of the Enneagram or other tools when we start labeling ourselves too much, because I'm like, In what ways is your perception of yourself shaping how you are versus actually like describing how you are? Um, and I'm like, if you think you're old, then you're old.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:00:03

Hmm. yeah,

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:05

you, know? Uh, of course I would never say that. That's rude, but I think it,

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:00:09

yeah. No, I think that's definitely something that again, like has been so freeing to like get out of that way of thinking because yeah, it's like that all or nothing thing. It's like, man, my time is up and it's so funny cuz I feel like now that I've released, I, I really feel like I just like released that belief. Like, I don't feel that way anymore. I feel like. So many things that like are happening that I am just so satisfied with, and I'm just so excited I can, you know, like, you know what I mean? And so I feel like it just opens up when you don't even think about, think about it like that, you know? It's, yeah. So I absolutely agree. Let's not think that way at all.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:49

Yeah. But it's really hard to to just jump out of a way of thinking that you've always had, that you've actually needed. Right. Like, these are survival strategies we've needed. Um, okay. What do you wish others knew about your type or subtype?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:01:04

Yeah. I think that there's, there's a lot. Um, and I think this answer is always changing, you know, but, um, I think at the moment I there's, there's a post that you have, it's like things to know about type four and that, you know, we wish others would know. And so, um, we can even link that too. But I, I really like that post. And then just that, like we as fours, like we know what's expected of us in a moment. Like we really care about something, we will work so hard for that. And like, again, I was listening to Ian Krons book again like this morning, just, um, kinda reflecting back on that. And he said something how like, yeah, they'll us, like if, if they really put everything into what they're doing, they'll exceed expectations and so I really like that. Yeah. Just, you know, they'll work as hard as they can. What about you? What would you wish people would know about your type?

Steph Barron Hall: 1:02:02

Um, I think it's that, that threes are probably a lot more sensitive than people let on, um, than, than we normally let on. I think, like even self press threes are social threes. Um, I have had some experiences where people are kind of like, oh, you're a three. You can just take it like you want direct. So they just give me like, like, oh, can I offer you some feedback? And then they say something that's a little bit harsh or, um, a little bit hurtful, and it's like, okay, And so I do think part of my work is as like this author I really like, uh, Tara Moore, she says, she talks about unhooking from praise and criticism. I think that's really important. I think that's really important work for threes in general, um, and for myself. But, um, I don't think that you have to be like, oh, I can't, I can't be encouraging or kind or sensitive toward a three because they're gonna, you know, get a big head about it. It's like you, I, I don't

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:03:07

Yeah, yeah. No, I love that.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:03:10

Yeah. Um, hopefully that made sense.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:03:13

No, it did. It did. Um, okay, so I'm curious, um, and we can kinda go back and forth on this. What would you tell your younger self.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:03:22

Hmm. I think, um, I, I'd say it's something that feels, uh, like, kind of like, it won't make sense, but I'll explain it. It's, it's really like moving more toward the pain, but also more toward the lightness and like things you enjoy. Um, I think moving more toward the pain in the sense of like when things come up that are painful instead of like getting too busy or to, to really look at it or trying to be more productive or trying to paper over it by tuning it out, actually moving toward it and, and like identifying that because that is like, The best way in a lot of ways to move forward with growth work. Um, and then I'd also say like, move more toward like joy and fun and lightness, because I think as a three, there are so many ways that I'm like, oh, well, like I'm gonna just move the bar. Like, I'm not gonna celebrate now. I'm gonna celebrate next time I hit the milestone or whatever.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:04:26

I love that. I love that. Yeah, so mine would be, there's not an alternative life that you're missing out on. I think younger and me would like really, really need to hear that. And, and me now actually, like, I always need that reminder. But, um, yeah, for so long I feel like I was just so sad about things that didn't even exist. Like, yeah. That was pretty big. So that's, that's my

Steph Barron Hall: 1:04:53

Mm-hmm. Have you read, um, midnight Library by Matt

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:04:58

I haven't, but I know that, um, y'all were talking about it in another episode, previous episode of this podcast, so I haven't

Steph Barron Hall: 1:05:04

Yeah. Hmm. It's good. Okay. We're in the final stretches here. Tell me about what you're into this week. Um, like books, podcasts, concepts, ideas, what are you into, what's kind of on your mind?

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:05:19

yeah, so I'm kind of late on this, but I feel like I'm late to a lot of shows and then they just become like my favorite things ever. But I just recently finished Silicon Valley and I love that show. Ugh. It's like become one of my favorites. Like Parks and Rec is my favorite show. But man, that one's pretty close. And I just, I think my favorite is if, if anyone has seen that, um, the character Jared is hilarious. I love him so much and I just find myself just watching clips of his char cuz he's so funny. Like he just snaps. I love it. I love it, I love it. So yeah, that's what I am into just finish that kind of, you know, hoping I can find something like similar that I really enjoy. But yeah, that's what I'm into.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:06:12

Yeah, I love it I love that show too. Um, it's so funny.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:06:15

it is funny. Um, what about you? What are you into this week?

Steph Barron Hall: 1:06:18

Mm. Well I'm reading this book called Insight by Tasha Uric and, um, it's about how we're not really as self-aware as we think and why that matters, and then how to actually build self-awareness. And so, um, it's been a really interesting read. I'm about halfway through. What's interesting to me about it too is like, uh, the audio book and the physical book are different. Um, Because sometimes I get both and I like try to follow along, but sometimes you can't do that because actually, like they are pretty different. But anyway, um, yeah, I think it's a great book. Uh, great read. I'll probably share more about it once I'm finished reading it. Um, but yeah, really enjoyed

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:07:02

Ooh, that's fascinating. I'll have to write that down on my list.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:07:06

Yeah.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:07:06

That's cool,

Steph Barron Hall: 1:07:07

Yeah, it's a good one. okay, anything else that we didn't cover? I feel like we

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:07:11

yeah, I felt like we had a really great conversation and I'm just excited for this upcoming season. I think it's gonna be great.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:07:18

Me too. Thanks for joining me.

Heidi Alaniz Critz: 1:07:19

Absolut.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:07:25

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify