Finding Softness with EFT Tapping as an Enneagram 8 with Jacqui Acree - Part 2

Hello, and welcome back to Enneagram in real life. A podcast that will help you go beyond any grand theory into practical understanding so that you can apply the Enneagram in your day-to-day life. I'm your host, Steph Baron hall, creator of nine types co on Instagram, author of the Enneagram in love, accredited Enneagram, professional, and ennea-curious human, just like you be sure to check out the show notes for more ways to apply the Enneagram and your daily life. Thanks so much for listening and now onto the show.

Hey friends. We are back again today with Jacqui Acree. So, if you did not listen to last week's episode, I'm just going to recommend you. Go ahead and pause here, and go back, listen to last week's and then come back here, because this is part two of our conversation. And we've already talked a little bit about EFT and what EFT tapping is, and that's going to be really important.

And Jacqui and I are kind of in the midst of a conversation about these concepts of burnout. These concepts of how we kind of can turn ourselves into self-improvement projects and how tempting that can really be. So it's just such a great conversation and I really don't want you to miss the first half. So make sure you go check that out. And then come right back here and we will be talking with Jacqui Acree, who is an EFT practitioner.

And all of her details are in the show notes again. So this is another opportunity to check her out and get her free 10 minute tapping session. Follow her on Instagram, all the good things. So let's jump right back into this conversation where we left off and i hope you enjoy.

Before we get into today's episode, I want to talk to you about subtypes. Now, Subtypes have been transformational in my own Enneagram journey, and they've also been so incredibly helpful for my clients and my core students, and even some of the teams that I've worked with.

So with that said, I want you to head over to the show notes or go to ninetypes.co/subtypes. And download my free subtype guide. You'll get a breakdown of what the whole word means. The entire concept, All 27 subtypes, and you will unlock this new understanding of yourself and the people around you, and you'll have a new way to apply the Enneagram in your daily life.

So again, head to ninetypes.co/subtypes, or check out that link in the show notes to learn more. Enjoy.

Jacqui: Allowing ourselves to be rhythmic, to be seasonal, to understand that sometimes you need to get outta your comfort zone and sometimes you need to find what feels good.

Steph: Yeah.

Jacqui: We tend to go only towards the, get out of your comfort zone, push, push, push, push push, which is leading to burnout.

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: And it's a huge problem. One of my favorite virtual mentors, her name is Dr. Valerie Ryan. I don't know if this quote originated with her, but I heard her say it so I will attribute it to her, but maybe  I've tried Googling it.

Jacqui: I didn't ever find, um, an original source, but I didn't look too too hard. Uh, she says “they used to burn us at the stakes and now they just hand us the torches.”

Steph: Mmm.

Jacqui: so that's what I'm talking about. It's, you know, if, if a 5:00 AM miracle morning, isn't working for you, you might be like lighting yourself on fire.

Jacqui: Um, if pushing through forcing yourself to try harder, try harder, try harder getting outta your comfort zone. If that's, it may be a torch in your hand. And so what if there's another way and you still get to have that life that you, that you're wanting like that you desire. Um, what does that look like? Um, okay, so that's one part, there is another part of that, as soon as I said, what, if you still get to have that life that you desire?

Jacqui: I'm also here for the conversation, um, that sometimes life is just hard.

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: and there are such things as privilege. Or opportunities that don't exist for every single person that life does actually have limited agency. And I, again, I just, I don't think that's a popular conversation, culturally. I think we prefer to say that you can be and do and have it all.

Jacqui: And that if you think the right thoughts, you can make magic happen in your life.

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: And so risking the unpopular sentiment, I do think that our thoughts are incredibly important and they're part of the equation, but I don't think that your thoughts can solve every problem in your life. And I think that we do have limited agency.

Jacqui: I think we're facing some of that in our current global situation that some of us have never felt. We're maybe feeling it for the first time. And it's hard. It's hard to be told no, or to be told, this is what exists for you right now. And, and. that's what it is. And it can be very hard to accept. Um, but that is, I think that's a conversation that's worth having.

Jacqui: And I think it's important because a lot of us are Gaslighting ourselves by thinking I must be doing this wrong. I must not be thinking the right thoughts. I'm not practicing these affirmations correctly enough. Maybe I didn't repeat them enough times today. 

Steph: Right

Jacqui: right? So I just, I think that these conversations are nuanced. I think that the middle path is an important path to consider. And I think that we can experience all that life has to offer even within the limited agency of our lives.

Steph: yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, um, that's such a great point too. And I honestly, part of me has like really grown a little bit allergic to the term gaslighting being thrown around just because so often people are like, oh, they're just gaslighting you it's like, no, no. Is that actually what's happening here?

Steph: Like, it is just like one of those things that has gotten really like—

Jacqui: It's like the word organic. Do you remember when everybody loved to talk about, oh, that's so organic, like that organic reach or that, or that was such an organic connection and it just overused a really good word and mis— not only overused it, but sometimes misused it. And I think gaslighting, or gas lit, I think sometimes, maybe is in that category, um, where it's now become this term that people are throwing around rather casually, but it actually has it.

Jacqui: It's got some heavy weight to it.

Jacqui: Mm-hmm

Steph: Yeah. And I think, um, specifically self gas lighting. When I first came across that I think it must have been late 20 or mid 2020. Um, but it helped me to really recognize that tendency in myself to, to say like, well, everyone else is doing it better. Like everyone else has it figured it out.

Steph: If I can't do it, if I can't hack it, I'm just not strong enough. Like I'm just not blank. Right? Um, and when in reality it's like, “no, sometimes things are just hard” like, and just because, I can't push through this specific thing. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with me necessarily.

Jacqui: Not at all. Like, even like, I love like how you use that little word necessarily on the end. It's like, we're not quite willing to commit to that. It's like, I'm still holding space that maybe it's possible. There is something wrong with me, but not necessarily. It's like, not at all. Like it's, we're so conditioned to talk about ourselves that way and think about ourselves that way, but there really isn't anything wrong with you at all.

Jacqui: We're all unique humans and I think that, okay, so core beliefs are something that you and I have talked about outside of this podcast and core beliefs, which are part of the Enneagram. Correct? So when we have a core belief that there's something wrong with us, that needs to be fixed. That's something that needs to be fixed.

Steph: Right. That's the thing. Yeah.

Jacqui: but really that the only— Glennon Doyle says this, “the only thing that was ever wrong with me was the belief that there was something wrong with me”.

Steph: Mm-hmm

Jacqui: And that is a core belief that you want to tap into. So that's something that tapping does, is it helps you to, like I said, remember, it helps you access like perspective, rational thinking logic like that part of our brain that develops last. So the brain develops from the bottom. That means the limbic system develops first and the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until later in life. I think right now the most current estimate is somewhere in the mid twenties for males like that's— So we are dealing with the lower level of the brain when we're younger.

Jacqui: And that's when those core beliefs are formed, they're formed in like super, highly charged, emotional situations, lots and lots of nuance. And then we become adults with this fully developed brain, but we don't understand, like we don't make the connection. There's a reason why we're feeling stuck in these core beliefs that we developed when we're younger, they developed first.

Jacqui: Right? So trying to talk or think your way out of that, it's it doesn't— well, okay. It's not that it doesn't work at all. Actually. I always wanna hold space for the fact that like cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, is a really, it's a gold standard of therapy. CBT people may have tried it or know what that is.

Jacqui: Um,  it's a good option and it may or may not help people with, you know, things like core beliefs, for example. Um, you can use your thoughts to change your life in some ways, for sure. But you are, I kind of liken it to trying to like move a rhinos with your pinky finger.

Steph: Yeah.

Jacqui: Right? Cause you're going in through the conscious mind, it requires constant vigilance.

Jacqui: It's it is. I've done it. It's hard work. Um, now, if it's effective or if it's a tool that you wanna use again, we can use all the tools. We don't have to be discriminatory and say like, oh, I don't use that at all. It can be helpful, but what if there's an easier way? but if there's an easier way, a gentler way.

Jacqui: And so really becoming aware is one of the first things we need to do about our core beliefs, like what is driving this behavior? So as an Enneagram eight, it feels very unsafe for me to be vulnerable. And so why, what core beliefs might have been formed in me as a child that I decided it's not safe to be vulnerable, right?

Jacqui: That's important work to be doing. And I feel so strongly like that. The engram is such a helpful, empowering tool to do some of that core belief work and then married with EFT tapping like to me, it's like these two together are such, they there's such a beautiful relationship there.

Steph: yeah, yeah. And I, I mean, just thinking about the unconscious childhood messages of the different types, you know, I could see how that would be really impactful. yeah, I think for me, well, in terms of like anxiety and stuff, I've definitely done like experienced CBT therapy. Right. Um, but what's been most helpful for me is actually like internal family systems, brain spotting, these— and, and especially like brain spotting, which is all about, I mean, I was listening to a brain spotting podcast yesterday and they were talking about how it, EFT can

Steph: can be helpful in similar ways, which I thought was kind of interesting. I don't know that much about all of the modalities, because I only know enough that I can like get something out of it. I don't use it as a therapist or anything cause I'm not a therapist, but,

Jacqui: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Steph: yeah. That's super helpful.

Jacqui: I think it's the somatic piece that often is, uh, left out of a lot of traditional helping therapies. Um, and I use that term therapies, really loosely “tools” maybe is a better word for it, for the context of our conversation. But, uh, when you're we can’t ignore the body again, we love to do that culturally and in self-help we love to ignore the body.

Jacqui: We it's like, we think we're disembodied heads

Steph: Mm-hmm

Jacqui: all we need to do is, you know, figure out our thoughts, replace those thoughts with the correct thoughts

Steph: “never make decisions with your feelings.”

Jacqui: Yeah.

Jacqui: Yeah, totally. That's just not, that's not how we work. As humans we have for every one message from our brain to our body, there are nine or even 10 depends on the research.

Jacqui: There are at least nine messages from your body to your brain. Like there's this beautiful feedback loop between the brain and the body. And even just that tiny little ratio tells you, like there's a lot more going on than just like your thinking thoughts and what they have to tell you about your life and who you are.

Steph: Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious if like, when you learned your type and then you learned about, the intelligence centers and, and specifically type eight being in the body center, the gut center, what was that like for you to learn that?

Jacqui: Hmm. Well, that was again, like I was new enough to the Enneagram that when you taught us that that was the first I'd heard of that I was like, pardon me? I had no idea, uh, the ennea- thought didn't cover that in its like daily email to me. So it really resonated with me. I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.

Jacqui: It was like this, um, like coming home moment of like, oh yeah. Um, yes, anger for sure being a dominant emotion in my emotional landscape also really resonated with me, but the gut triads. Yeah, that was really, I found it really interesting and it made a lot of things click. That in my experience up till now, I also thought it was really interesting.

Jacqui: I'm married to a nine and I have a lot of nines in my life and I really found it fascinating that nines are also part of that triad. I would never have guessed that.

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: So that was actually super, super, super helpful and interesting for me.

Steph: Are any of them into the Enneagram?

Jacqui:Yeah actually, several

Steph: I would be just curious to hear their feedback, cuz I just know some nine friends of mine are so like, they were asleep to it. And then when they started recognizing like, oh, you know, this is like the center of intelligence now it's like, like they feel things on a more visceral level because of that.

Jacqui: Mm-hmm yeah, like I think it gives you permission maybe to listen to that as a source of information, it validates it a little bit and, Yeah. And maybe as a nine, that validation is actually like, it's almost like giving you permission.

Steph: Yeah.

Jacqui: Yeah.

Steph: No, I think that, that makes a lot of sense. Um, I'm curious. Okay. I have a couple more questions, but um, how does your Enneagram type show up in your day to day life? 

Jacqui: Hmm. That's a really interesting question. I would say that anger for me is a dominant emotion. Yeah. I love your face. I don't know if anyone's gonna get to see the video of that clip, but that was really funny. She's like what? Wow. Uh, yeah, I know. Live a day in my life. yeah, it really is. I feel anger very quickly.

Jacqui: It burns really hot and it comes out, like it's external. So it's fierce, it's intense. And if it's directed, it's something that like an activist type of a thing that can be really, really helpful.

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: But, um, I was just reading in Brene Brown's Atlas of the heart, which is a book I highly recommend. It's so, so good.

Jacqui: And I was just reading actually yesterday about anger and the debate in the research about is anger, a primary emotion or a secondary emotion covering up a whole bunch of other emotions. So I think, um, I mean, what Brene says is she makes a really good argument for it not being a primary emotion doesn't mean that it never stands on its own, but that usually it's an emotion that's underneath.

Jacqui: Like if you can get nuanced in it, that's really important to say like, okay, well, my initial experience of this feels like anger, but actually what I'm probably feeling is grief.

Jacqui: Or maybe what I'm actually feeling is disappointment or anxiety, or I might be feeling really vulnerable. So for me, I think that's been really helpful, like all the emotional work that I've done in, I guess, recent years, particularly since being certified in EFT as a practitioner, it's really framed that for me.

Jacqui: So I'm familiar with the experience of anger is the original, like maybe the, um, like the indicator light flashing on the dashboard, but there's usually something else going on below the surface. And so, um, so that's, but it, it burns bright and hot and it can be it, I don't think it only burns me. I think that's like, so the question, like how does being an eight show up in your daily life?

Jacqui: If I'm not really mindful and intentional about it? I think it probably burns other people, people that I love that are close to me that I don't intend to burn, but maybe it burns a little.

Jacqui: Um, sometimes those people. And, um, in your course, like in Enneagram In Real Life, I remember us talking about what do you need from other people as your type and like all of us as different types.

Jacqui: We're having that conversation. And as an eight with the other eight, I really love the experience of being with other eights. It was really interesting hearing what's helpful for them and hearing them put words to things and it like different words to a similar experience. Um, it's, I really need somebody to be able to hold the space so I can be as big and burn as bright as I need to for as long as I need to, without it being scary,

Jacqui: like that intensity, I need someone who can handle that intensity without me needing to tone it down because I can actually get wherever I need to get to on my own.

Jacqui: Usually like I can work it out, but it like it has to come out if it stays in, it just is like it's inner, inner combustion. Like it just literally cannot. So other things that I do to help that, cause you can't always expect someone else to hold that for you. Right? Is I have an incredible dog that I love more than my own life, for sure.

Jacqui: Anybody else that they love that much. Uh, she has been a huge source of healing for me. She's someone who can hold the space, right. And like, uh, unconditional love. And we hike, um, in the area that I live in, I back onto a forest being in the forest in the trees being very present is really important for me being mindful, listening to the birds saying like making sure my phone is tucked away, watching her, like just enjoying the physical.

Jacqui: sensations that are around me. That's really, really helpful. Uh, also, like I said, doing a bit of yoga, bringing myself into the present moment and slowing myself down is really, really important. Um, and I've learned that I do think that that's one of the gifts that comes with midlife is again our, my dear friend, Brene, who I consider a friend, but I've never personally met, but she talks about the midlife unraveling.

Jacqui: So I'm 44. She says midlife is kind of anywhere from like later thirties until dead. So it's an invitation and she says, it's an invitation where the universe like grabs you by the shoulders and pulls you in close and whispers in your ear, “I'm not fucking around.” And this invitation to look at those core beliefs,

Jacqui: look at those patterns that we've had up until this point. And now we come to that crossroads. What do you want next? Because what you've been doing, hasn't been working for you. And so you can keep going, right? You can keep going on that path and keep trying harder, keep being hard on yourself, keep struggling, and buffering as much as you can for whatever the, followed is of that.

Jacqui: Or, um, sometimes it's numbing, right? Like sometimes, like I talk about trying harder. Sometimes we numb. It's not always like trying harder. Sometimes it's going inward and just like almost shutting down. Um, the other alternative is you can start uncovering what's going on, like under the surface. And what do you want those next decades to look like?

Jacqui: What are those relationships? What are those patterns that you're bringing to relationships? What do those look like? So for me at 44, now this is some work I've been doing for the past few years. So definitely though it was, it was late thirties. I started to realize, you know, what? what I'm doing isn't actually working for me.

Jacqui: I'm I'm burning too hot too often. I was feeling like I said, stress was my baseline. Um, and I wasn't in my body.

Steph: Mmmm

Jacqui: It was very in my head. And so constantly on that, like anxious hamster wheel brain, always trying to think my way through everything trying harder, trying harder. I'll figure it out. I just need to do this.

Jacqui: Um, maybe if I just do this, and finally I settled into this softness

Steph: mm-hmm

Jacqui: and it's interesting for me being an Enneagram eight, who really identifies with softness because as a younger Enneagram eight or maybe underdeveloped, I don't know what the correct language is there, but, uh, as like a less grown, a less aware Enneagram eight, I have, like, I have clients who talk to me about how, like, working with me feels really gentle and really like, there's a lot of like softness to it.

Jacqui: Um, we still get results, which is, I think really important. You still get results, but you can do it in a different way. And so I've gotten that feedback from them and it always makes me smile or even laugh because the younger Jackie would not relate to that. And I think that people who maybe knew me in an earlier part of my life would also be like, what gentle, think that's a word that you would use to describe me, um, in my younger years, but there's a softness there.

Jacqui: And so I love that the, any Grammy helps me to, uh, it does help me show up big. It helps me get shit done. Um, it helps me be fierce and fight for people and things that I love and that are important to me. Um, And it also, now I've learned to bring a softness to it so I can still get those kind of results, but without a torch in my hand.

Steph: Mm-hmm . Yeah,

Jacqui: most of the time

Steph: yeah, no, I think that's really beautiful

Jacqui: that is still there sometimes.

Steph: yeah. One, it needs to be sometimes, you know, um,

Jacqui: there's still, I mean, there's, of course there are unhealthy aspects that I'm continuing to work out. And I think that that's, like I said, I look at that as most of the time as an invitation to do the work and that we can do that work with a sense of ease instead of force or criticism.

Jacqui: But, I think it's just really important to me. Like one of my core values is not, uh, like is, is to say like, “you don't need to fix yourself”, and “I haven't figured it all out yet either”. So, and that's okay. We're figuring it out. We're in the process of being human. That's what being human is. It's and that can be an adventure.

Steph: yeah, yeah. And I think, um, that's one of the things about the Enneagram that I'm just learning more and more because even learning from people who've used this tool for decades, you know, and they teach it and everything it's, they're not like, well, I am the perfect, like healed version and I never deal with that anymore.

Steph: It's just that they notice it they're that they're aware of it. Um, and so I think that's like a huge, um, huge thing. 

Jacqui: It's like a lot of self-acceptance I think. And self-awareness one thing I'd say to any eights that are listening to this, that was really, really helpful for me. Um, in case somebody hasn't had this, uh, realization yet, or maybe it hasn't been shared with them, but the whole vulnerability thing. I, for a long time as an eight, I was like, I'm vulnerable, I'm vulnerable.

Jacqui: Like I kept thinking to myself, I'm vulnerable. I didn't really relate to that part of the eight. And it was in your course when I think it was another eight or maybe you said, I don't remember. I do remember we had a conversation about how eights are often okay. With being transparent, but not with being vulnerable.

Jacqui: And that's where language is so important. Right? Like it's, I've totally relate to that. Transparency for me is extremely comfortable, but vulnerability is like a hard, no.

Steph: yeah.

Jacqui: That's just not gonna happen.

Steph: Yes.

Jacqui: which is hilarious. Cuz here I am quoting Brene brown in our interview and um, Brown's work is all about vulnerability and I've been drawn to her work for, you know, for the entire time she's been doing it.

Jacqui: I found her really early on in her career and maybe that's partly why it's like, we go to where we have a need. Right? And uh, and human connection. I mean, loneliness is literally an epidemic now and you can't have true connection, human to human connection, without some vulnerability. And uh, so that's an example of like a midlife unraveling for me is do I want to choose who I could feel safe being somewhat vulnerable with?

Jacqui: Or do I want to just continue to lug around a 40 ton shield?

Steph: Yeah.

Jacqui: and that's, I mean, that's to your point, it's like, well, sometimes I choose the shield still, right? Like that's sometimes I'm like, “no, I'm gonna keep my shield”. And, uh, but it's heavy and I'm getting old and frail. [laughs]

Steph: Yeah. Yeah. That's such a great analogy though. I think that's gonna be really helpful. And, um, I think too, it'll be interesting cuz so far the eights I have had on the podcast or the eight that I have booked, somehow I ended up like booking four eights and I'm like trying to get at least one of each type.

Jacqui: I can’t wait to hear the other interviews.

Steph: Yeah. But I think it's definitely people who I really gravitate toward who have so much of that gentleness and softness as well as, as the strength and intensity. And, and so it's like a really nice blend and I think it's really helpful for people to hear you say things like what you're just saying about the 40 pound shield and the vulnerability and things like that, because I think it's really relatable.

Steph: And I think a lot of the time, especially young eights. A lot of the people that I even talk with on Instagram,, there are definitely eights who are like, yeah, I'm an eight and they're proud of it. But I experienced a lot of eights, especially young women who, one, maybe they're comforted by thinking like, oh, there's not something wrong with me. This is like how I was like, basically born to be. But also there are a lot of eights who are like, I'm exhausted by myself.

Jacqui: Mm-hmm

Steph: I hate this intensity. I hate that. I'm so like fiery and angry. Why can't I just be more chill you know? 

Jacqui: yeah, I relate to that. Yeah, I totally relate to that. And like life right now is really in particular, like in this unique little snapshot and it may not be any longer when this podcast airs, but my husband broke his leg about 10 days ago and he needed surgery. And so I went from having, like, we have a very, um, equal partnership.

Jacqui: And so it went from like 50/50 to like zero and a hundred for just a while. And, um, I relate to that right now. Exactly what you said. Like, I just feel like I'm too much for myself,

Steph: Mmm

Jacqui: intensity of how I feel like, and it's not like I'm strong and capable at getting all the shit done and handling it, but how I feel about it isn’t matching that.

Jacqui: Does that make sense? Like my, the intensity of how I feel and it, it does, it feels exactly like how you said it feels like I'm too much even for myself to handle. and it's Okay. Right? It's okay. Like finding those soft places to land. um, knowing that sometimes life does feel like this. And I love how, Glennon Doyle she talks about, we can do hard things.

Jacqui: Um, and again, that's sort of like a, like in a way that's like an Enneagram eight thing, Like “we can do hard things”, but she had a guest on who is another one of my favorite mentors, another person who I swear is one of my best friends and she just doesn't know it yet. Her name is Kate Bowler, B O W L E R. She's a Canadian.

Jacqui: Um, and she has an incredible podcast called Everything Happens. So if you wanna look into some work about like how life has limited agency, she's incredible. but she was on Glennon's podcast fairly recently. And uh, she said we can do some hard things. It just cracked me up. I think that that's the truth.

Jacqui: Like we can't do all the hard things all the time. So again, another thing that I would do as Enneagram eight for myself is look at, okay, well, what hard things can I do today? And what hard things just have to— I call it. Um, I have a five day series called Easing the Mental Load, which we are all carrying, at some, in some way.

Jacqui: And there's like, it's like juggling, we're all juggling all these balls.

Jacqui: Right? Okay. Well, some of the balls are glass. Those balls, you, you can't drop those balls, but lots of the balls are plastic. Don't feel plastic, gotta keep 'em all up in the air, but which ones are plastic? Which ones can we even consciously choose to put down for now?

Jacqui: They might become glass tomorrow, but for now it's a plastic ball. Um, so really growing the skill of, instead of going into that emotionally reactive place, knowing how to feel your feelings, regulate the emotions, take care of that— Like take care of yourself, true self care. And then now what does the day look like?

Jacqui: You know, so how can I be strong, and intense, but not too much for myself. That's like, that's like the question I now ask myself every day.

 Steph: yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's that's really helpful. I think I heard the thing about the juggling from Melinda Gates or Cheryl Sandberg.

Jacqui: I think Nora Roberts, is that an author? Um, I have that in my notes, in the mental load mini course that I have, and I'm pretty sure it originated with Nora Roberts. Um, I think she was in an interview and somebody was asking her, how does she handle all the things that she has to handle as like a mom and an author, like this busy, busy life.

Jacqui: And she talked about that. How we're all juggling all these balls and you have to be able to discern which ones are glass, which ones are plastic. And then you choose to put down some of those plastic balls. Um, but learning that discernment again, maybe this is just Enneagram eight  thing. I don't know.

Jacqui: I often feel like, “no, all the balls are glass.” Like they all have to get done. Everything has to get done. And this lonely little soldier narrative that I have is like, and I'm doing them all. I do it all by myself. It's like, okay, well, how could I also ask for help? Like maybe what if I could throw you a ball?

Steph: Right?

Jacqui: Can I trust you to catch it?

Steph: Mmmm

Jacqui: That was huge for me too, with the Enneagram thing, the Enneagram eight thing that has, that is continuing to roll out in my life. I continue to notice that about myself now that you introduced that to me in the course, I've noticed, oh, geez, like the trust thing is huge. And if I don't trust you to catch the ball, I'm not throwing it to you, but that's a huge problem for me, because I need to have people I can trust to throw the ball to, and people do sometimes miss they don't catch the ball or they do drop it.

Jacqui: And I don't have a whole lot of grace in my life for people when they drop the ball on me, it's like, I cut them out. Like it's so fast. So again, any other, Enneagram eights out there that are listening to this, or if somebody's listening and they have an engram eight in their life, one thing you can do is, if they throw you the ball, catch it.

Jacqui: If you can try your best or even say, I can't catch that right now, I could actually handle that. I can handle it. If somebody says to me, I can't catch that right now. I'm like, oh, okay, well thank you for telling me, but if you say you're gonna catch it and you don't catch it, we have a huge problem.

Steph: Yeah.

Jacqui: now we've got a problem because what helped me to understand was it comes down to trust for me.

Steph: Yeah. Well, and it's an offering of vulnerability. Like it's an offering of saying like asking for help can be vulnerable.

Jacqui: Yeah, yeah. That's exactly it. And honestly, I didn't understand that about myself until I took your course. So I was 43, I think when I first learned that, but I didn't understand that it was actually about trust. So that was super, super helpful. Um, for me to understand that there's a trust question in that.

Jacqui: Mm.

Steph: Yeah. That makes sense. Um, okay. Let's uh, talk a little bit. I know you talked about some of your offers, but I would love for you to share, like where can people find you in what ways can they work with you? I know they're gonna be so excited about tapping and everything.

Jacqui: Yeah, I would love to meet some of your people because your people are definitely my people, personal growth oriented humans that want to grow into their best, no, let's track that. It's not the best. It's the favorite version of themselves, right? Um, again, if best works for you, then maybe you're not an eight I don't know. I'd love to hear from an eight, any eights that are listening to this, I'd love to hear if that resonates with them. If best feels like pressure for them, or if it feels exciting and like, and maybe there's a growth thing there. I think when I was younger, “best” used to feel really exciting. Now it just feels like I'm tired. Can I do something different? Okay. So yes, your people are definitely my people and they can go to my website, jacquiacree.com and I spell my name Weird. That's on my mom, not on me. so it's J A C Q U I, but I'm sure you'll, put it in the show notes

Steph:  I’ll link it.

Jacqui: So going to my website, they'll see lots of different things on there.

Jacqui: They can download that free session, how to start your day calm, clear, and grounded. So it's gonna help. Feeling stressed, overwhelmed or anxious in the morning. It'll shift that really quickly. And it's only 10 minutes. I did that on purpose because if you're feeling that way already, you don't feel like you have a whole lot of time to sit there and meditate for 30 minutes or write affirmations.

Jacqui: Right? Um, so that's one option. There's the master class that you can do. That's also on my website, it's a recorded version that sometimes I do it live, but I don't have one scheduled right now. So if they wanna watch that, there's also that opportunity and reach out to me on Instagram, like drop me a DM.

Jacqui: I'm always happy to chat human to human. That's something I really stand for is like human to human connection. And so I love hearing from people I'd love to hear something that resonated in the podcast, whether it was about, you know, an Enneagram eight that they have in their lives that this maybe hopefully help them understand that inrtense person a little bit differently, or maybe there's somebody out there that also feels like, huh, that's true. If being hard on myself, worked it would've worked by now. And I just, maybe that resonated with someone. So I love to have those conversations.

Steph: Awesome. I love it. And yeah, I'll link everything in the show notes. Um, so everyone will be able to connect there. Um, okay. Final two questions. I ask everyone these two. Could you name a book that has helped you refresh you or shaped you in the last year?

Jacqui: Oh, one? I only get to pick one? Reading is one of my very favorite activities. That's something I would choose above. Most other things. just one, let me see. I love non-fiction and I do read a lot of it. So, can I pick two? I'm gonna pick a non-fiction and I'm gonna pick a fiction. I'm gonna break your rule.

Jacqui: I would say Atlas of the heart is one of my very favorites right now. It's one of the things that I love about it is even if you're not a reader it's broken down into like little bite size chunks. So you could literally read like two minutes in a day and still get really good value out of it. Or if you're more of a voracious reader, you could, you know, just gorge and consume the whole thing.

Jacqui: That's either way would work. And it's completely in alignment with this work that we're talking about growing into the favor version of yourself, emotionally, regulating yourself, and really creating and growing, the language that we need in order to identify our emotions. So I love anything by Brene Brown.

Jacqui: That's her most recent book, and I do highly recommend it. But fiction is such an underrated source of revelation. I find fiction, good fiction, so supportive for learning. And I think you and I were actually just talking,on Instagram about Anxious People by Fredrik Backman. Weren't we just talking about that?

Jacqui: So I read it a year ago and I just reread it and I can't recommend that book enough. I love, again, anything by Fredrik Backman. He's incredible. He wrote A Man called Ove. Um, I've read everything of his but anxious people, I think is his, his most recent book. And it's excellent. Also The Midnight Library by Matt Haig.

Steph: Oh my gosh.

Jacqui: So good. So good. We could, I could literally like, just sit here and now talk books forever with you. So , if people want more book recommendations, reach out. I love talking about books.

Steph: Anxious People, like I started reading it at 6:00 PM. Went to bed. I don't know. I think I slept six to eight hours and then, but I finish it by 9:00 AM the next morning.

Jacqui: Oh, my goodness.

Steph: It was just a thing where I was like, I just have to read this. That's not super uncommon for me, like earlier this, I guess it was last week now, I definitely read a book in one sitting that was 355 pages.

Jacqui: Hey, so which book?

Steph: Um, it's by Colleen Hoover.

Jacqui: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? You talked about that in your stories. And so then I went and  I'm a huge fan of public libraries. So I went into our public library database and I requested as many as I could, that none of them were available. So she's obviously very popular. I haven't read anything by her. So I'm really excited to dive in.

Steph: I read a few of her books now, so yeah, really good. Um, and Midnight Library. Oh my gosh. Have you read— Sorry. Have you read The Humans by Matt Haig?

Jacqui: No, because I got that book from the library and on the cover, it had these creepy, creepy eyes and I'm highly sensitive as well as an Enneagram Eight. So anyone who is highly sensitive might relate to this. I do not like being scared at all. I hate it. And there was something very creepy about the cover. So I got the book and then I couldn't pick it up. Cause I was like, I don't know what this is about. I don't really, so I'll have to read it. Was it good?

Steph: yeah, it's so funny. I would just be like chuckling. It's just like a, such a fantastic—

Jacqui: Funny? Why was the cover so creepy.

Steph: well, there is like a creepy element, but it's not scary. And, and actually, so one of my favorite shows is the good place,

Jacqui: Yes. So good.

Steph: What those two things have in common is just like a really, what's the word, like incisive, maybe commentary on humans and humanity and like how we are and what we do. And, um, yeah. So.

Jacqui: That's one of the reasons why I love the midnight library is because again, the obsession with living your best life now and overthinking and decision fatigue and decision anxiety. And I'm not gonna give any spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the book, but I really loved how, like I loved his take on the choices that we make in our lives.

Jacqui: And you just have to read it. It's so, so good.

Steph: yeah. It's so good. Highly, highly recommend. Okay. So far every time somebody's come on with a book, it's something that I've also read and then we could talk about it. It's been very exciting, anyway, I haven't read Atlas of the heart. It's on my coffee table. Final question. What is a piece of advice that has really stuck with.

Jacqui: oh, a piece of advice that is really stuck with me. Hmm. I really do love, you said Aundi, how do we say her name? A U N D I

Jacqui: Aundi Kolber. Sorry, Aundi we're probably butchering your name. Um, and you deserve better than that, but that it's the, “instead of trying harder, try softer”.

Steph: Hmm.

Jacqui: that really, I need that in my life every single day. So I don't know that it was direct advice given from her to me, but that's I took it right to heart, so, yeah.

Jacqui: Yeah.

Steph: I love that you just soaked it in and it kind of like resonated in a really specific way. Um, like you automatically knew what it meant for you.

Jacqui: Well, this is from a woman who made herself bleed doing wheel pottery, so yeah.

Steph: Yeah. So try softer. Yeah. Well, I love it. Thank you so much. I know that everyone will get a lot out of this and I'm sure they'll be, clicking on all the links and the show notes. Um, so thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Jacqui: This is super fun. Having this conversation with you. Thanks for having me.

Steph: Of course.

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you.

I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me.

Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon.

The Enneagram in Real Life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron Hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from Critz Collaborations. Thanks to Dr Dream Chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify.