Finding Softness with EFT Tapping as an Enneagram 8 with Jacqui Acree - Part 1

1:38

Hello, and welcome back to Enneagram in real life. A podcast that will help you go beyond any grand theory into practical understanding so that you can apply the Enneagram in your day-to-day life. I'm your host, Steph Baron hall, creator of nine types co on Instagram, author of the Enneagram in love, accredited Enneagram, professional, and ennea curious human, just like you be sure to check out the show notes for more ways to apply the Enneagram and your daily life. Thanks so much for listening and now onto the show. Hey, Hey, welcome back to Enneagram IRL. I am so glad you're here. And again, I have a really great episode for you. I know I say that every single week, but I think it's very true. And. This episode was so good that we are going to have a two-parter. So this is part one. And. You know, I love a good two hour long podcast, but I know that not everyone. Has that kind of time or makes that kind of time, I suppose. Even if you don't actually have it, like, I guess in my case, um, but. I get it. You know, we, we don't know how I'll have two hours to listen to a podcast. So we split this one up into two parts because. You know, there are a few of us who work on the podcast. As of right now. It's, uh, my husband, Brandon, um, my VA. Heidi as well as myself and both Brandon and Heidi said, this episode is so good. And so I just. Thought, you know what? Let's just keep the whole thing and we will split it up. So Jackie and I are friends, so we can talk for forever. And that's part of the reason why it's so long, but it's a really great episode. And. I think there's just a lot of alignment in the way that we both teach our specific topics. And I think that you're going to get a lot out of it. I did want to mention that. In the episode, I mentioned the 1% rule. And that rule comes from the book atomic habits by James clear. And I didn't say that during the episode. So that's one point. And then also Jackie mentioned something which is in my course, and a gram in real life called the sleeper effect. And that comes from research by psychologist, Richard So I can link both of those things in the show notes, but just want to let you know that those things do actually do have sources. And this is where you can find them at the top of the show. So. Let's go ahead and introduce Jackie, and then we'll hop right into this conversation. As an EFT practitioner and Jackie will explain what EFT means, but, um, often it's referred to as tapping. It's also called emotional freedom techniques. So that's what EFT stands for. As an EFT practitioner, Jackie a CRE is a self compassion advocate, gold trauma coach, and a self-help disruptor. She's the founder of being human together, an online course community where she uses EFT to empower highly sensitive women. To free themselves from chronic stress perfectionism and their inner critic. So they can live each day as their favorite version of themselves. If you fun facts about Jackie, she's happily addicted to coffee. She and I share that. And we also share that if we can say it with a Schitt's Creek GIF, we will. She is a science nerd who almost missed her colleague because she thought it was too woo. She's a highly sensitive Enneagram, eight. And most likely to say out loud what others are thinking and least likely to be quiet in a group of strangers. If you follow Jackie on Instagram, which I do highly recommend, you will also see that it, she is unapologetically ridiculous about her dog. So you can learn more about jackie@jackieacre.com. I've linked it in the show notes, just so that you can get the spelling right on that. And without further ado, let's hear from Jackie. before we get into today's episode. I want to talk to you about subtypes. Now. Subtypes have been transformational in my own Enneagram journey, and they've also been so incredibly helpful for my clients and my core students, and even some of the teams that I've worked with. So with that said, I want you to head over to the show notes or go to nine types.co/subtypes. And download my free subtype guide. You'll get a breakdown of what the whole word means. The entire concept. All 27 subtypes. And you will unlock this new understanding of yourself and the people around you, and you'll have a new way to apply the Enneagram in your daily life. So again, head to nine types.co/subtypes, or check out that link in the show notes to learn more. Enjoy.

Steph: 6:26

Well, Jackie, welcome to the podcast. So excited to have you here.

Jacqui: 6:31

I am super excited with big Enneagram eight energy here today.

Steph: 6:36

Yes. So starting right out the gate with your type, that's very exciting.

Jacqui: 6:41

of course. Is there any other way

Steph: 6:44

seriously. Um, yeah. Well, I'm really excited. I mean, we've already been chatting and I feel like I should have pressed record because I don't know. Maybe people like hearing us talk about the weather

Jacqui: 6:56

it's definitely a common topic of conversation.

Steph: 7:00

but okay. But genuinely I actually, I don't know if you feel this way, but because of, so my many of my friends live all over the place. We do talk about that a lot and it's kind of fun.

Jacqui: 7:11

It's interesting to hear about different people's experiences with where they live. What feels, what we were talking about was what felt cold to you today, versus what feels cold with where I am and our different experiences in the realities that we live in. And it is interesting sometimes to hear about that.

Steph: 7:28

it's kind of a good analogy actually, to the engram of like our different realities that we live in.

Jacqui: 7:34

you know, I was waiting for you. I'm like, I think she's pulling this together.

Steph: 7:37

Oh, I wasn't actually, but great job.

Jacqui: 7:40

yeah.

Steph: 7:41

um, but yeah, I, so we're obviously here to talk about the Ngram and I would just love to hear how you first discovered the Ngram. Like, where did it come into your life and what has it meant for you in, in your life?

Jacqui: 7:56

Yeah, the Enneagram has always been a source of fascination for me. And I originally discovered it probably, oh, it's gotta be at least 20 years ago now. I found it originally through somehow, maybe Richard roar. Somehow I got onto the ennea thought. So that's that little, um, email subscription, where you get a little email every day with a little, any thought for your type. And I have another really close friend who we would get these together. And once in a while, we would forward them to each other with a little note, something like. I hate this so much. so that was my initial introduction to the engram. And really that's where it stayed for quite a while. I've dabbled in different podcasts. I'm super excited about yours. Of course. And every time I try to, well, I don't anymore, but I used to really resist being an eight. And I think that's from the people that I talk to who know their type, that seems to be a really common response where people don't wanna be the type that they are. And so I used to really resist being an eight. I didn't like being an eight. And when I had information given to me about what being an eight was like, I just felt so. Uh, resistance. Like I just was like, no, I don't really like any of that. And so I didn't go too deep into the Enneagram until actually I took your course, uh, engram IRL in real life. And I think by then I had kind of made peace with being an eight in some ways. Cause I have seen how the strengths of being an eight have shown up in my life for sure. But your, your course and you in particular have really helped me to embrace it in a different way.

Steph: 9:49

Mm-hmm oh, that's cool. I appreciate that. I didn't realize, I guess that when you came into the course, that was like more so when you were kind of delving into it a little bit deeper again,

Jacqui: 10:01

yeah, definitely. I mean, like I said, surface understanding for me for years, two decades, surface understanding, but I've always been drawn to it. And so when I saw that course offer, I mean, I'd been following you on Instagram for a while. We had actually been, you know, I guess Instagram friends for a little while. Cause I found you through another mutual friend of ours. And so that's how I came across your, your account and all your information. I loved your posts. So they were already giving me this like new way of understanding the Ingram of seeing my own type of understanding other types. And so that course for me, it just felt like such a perfect fit because it was, it was like a dip your toe in, but in a really deep way. And then when we started the course, I was so surprised because there were so many of us in there, like so many people and a wide variety. I, there were people like me for sure that we're fairly new or like not new to the engram, but new to a deeper understanding of it. And then I was meeting people. that were, you know, any Agram coaches of some in some way of their own. Like, so there was this really wide variety, and I really love that. Actually. I know we're not here to talk about your course that is

Steph: 11:20

I'm getting uncomfortable.

Jacqui: 11:22

Yeah. I know. I'm like, sorry, it's not, this is everyone listening. I promise this is not a promo just for steps course, but that the question was how did I, you know, what's my experience with the engram and for me the most, uh, useful and supportive information that I've personally found for myself for the, with the Enneagram was definitely your course. And so, um, that's just ironic and it wasn't the question you had or the, an it was the question you had planned probably, but not the answer that you anticipated. Um, but it was, that was definitely really helpful for me. And, um, we can move on from this, so you don't have to feel uncomfortable anymore, but I will say to anyone who is looking for that kind of information, I would definitely highly recommend your course because. It was supportive. And I think because, like I said, I've talked with other people about the Ingram for decades now. And even recently I have friends who have just recently discovered their type. And that is such a common response. This feeling of, I don't like my type. I don't like myself. I don't like this about myself. And that wasn't my experience in delving into the engram with you. I mean, we see that information and we see ourselves through some of those lenses, but we're not left there feeling like, well, that sucks.

Steph: 12:38

yeah,

Jacqui: 12:39

like, it's so different than that. It's way more supportive.

Steph: 12:42

yeah. And I think, you know, somebody else from the course actually did say like, you don't pull any punches, but you do it in like a more gentle way. So it doesn't feel like a punch type of thing. Um, and I, I think that actually is born out of the same experience that you had where it's like, I learned my type. I was like, wow, I totally suck. Like, I just don't like this. I don't like this about myself. Um, I love the meme, like. raise your hand if you've ever felt personally victimized by the Anya thought, because like, have you seen a meme that, that replaces that? Because like genuinely, when I was like moving into this journey of self acceptance, um, I was like, I need to unsubscribe from this.

Jacqui: 13:25

Yeah, I totally did too.

Steph: 13:27

and, and I actually think it's a fantastic tool and I think the Ingram Institute is great and they put out great material, you know, not bashing them at all. But I think for me, and it sounds like for you also, like sometimes we're not ready to be constantly confronted with those dark spaces. Like I genuinely believe that. And this comes from actually a lot of my studies that I've done, um, in like leadership, my master's program was like a leadership program. So, um, when it comes to like personal development, I do believe we have to understand our strengths and how they can help us, um, before we can actually work on that other stuff. And so I think. in my approach. I really try to highlight that. I don't think that we have, because otherwise you're, you're constantly told, Hey, you have a nonjudgmental perspective. Like don't judge yourself, don't criticize yourself. Just be curious. But then it just like bashes you And it's like, what? Like, how do, how am I supposed to do both here? So I do think I try, I try to take more of that perspective of, um, really, you know, bringing in more of the gifts because it's also genuine. It's how I see it. It's how I see the types is like how beautiful and different and unique and fantastic everyone is, you know?

Jacqui: 14:47

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think one of the things that I noticed stands out about you and your work, and it's probably where we align so beautifully is how you bring self-compassion into the Enneagram and all of your work. And I wonder if sometimes the engram is used, um, to support this cultural obsession that we have with turning ourselves into self-improvement projects. It could be. And so, I mean, my number one core value is growth. I love personal growth. I've been invested in personal growth my entire life. So the Enneagram for sure. That's what drew me to it. but approaching ourselves with, like you said, a confrontational or very critical style is actually really hurtful and it doesn't support, change or growth. It actually does the opposite. It promotes self sabotage. It promotes, uh, failure actually. And that's very counter-cultural. So I think that, I think that's probably what I noticed and fell in love with about your approach, both in your Instagram account itself, where I originally met you. And then in your course is that you actually even talked about self-compassion and what it is, which is something I talk about in my work all the time. I've always been saying, I mean, a phrase you'll hear from, I think it's the first thing on my website. Actually you'll hear it from me all the time, because I really think people. they need to hear the truth. That if being hard on yourself, worked, it would have worked by now. And so what if there's another way and there is, and that's how you approach the engram. It's there's another way to use this tool for growth and it doesn't have to include bludgeoning yourself with the, any thought every day

Steph: 16:37

Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, I mean, even, and I, I get the temptation and I, I also like, that is one of the things that initially drew me to the engram too, is like, The blind spots, like, like seeing that and being able to be curious about it and understand them. I, I appreciated that it was had that depth, but I just, I honestly sometimes think that we maybe overestimate a little bit how much we can handle and how much change we can handle in personal growth we can handle at once. Um, so yeah, that's why I teach my clients this 1% rule. So the idea is for a seven, for example, feel the feeling 1% more so that, or sit with it 1% longer. Like it doesn't have to be a big thing. And over time, obviously you see gradual change. Um, but I think that's so important because that's something I see all the time in myself and in others. And I talked about in the course, obviously like this concept of, we expect things to really sink in and soak in overnight and they just don't like, that's just not how our brains work. Um,

Jacqui: 17:48

it's not. And I actually think that we need to normalize slow, consistent transformational change. And I, I teach a course called goal trauma. And so it helps people who feel. look, if you, if you have goal trauma, you know, it's one of those things where people will hear the term goal trauma. And if they're like, what's that I'm like, nevermind. It's okay. You don't have it. Whereas a lot of people will be like, oh, tell me more. And then we can talk about that. But in the context of goal trauma, one of the things I talk about all the time is like creating. It's a very unpopular concept, but it's choosing a wildly unambitious action every day, which is very much aligned with your 1% rule. It's just like something super wildly unambitious. So an example for me is I know that. I I, yoga is something that really does my body wonders. And at 44 it feels like I wake up with a new something every day. You know, I sneeze and injure myself. So yoga from my body is really, really supportive. And I'm talking very gentle, like not power yoga. I'm like very yin restorative type style. And even just 10 minutes a day is super helpful for me. But I have found it really challenging to hold myself to the consistency of like 10 minutes of yoga per day, which seems ridiculous. Like how can I not fit 10 minutes of laying on a mat per day? But it's been a really, uh, really difficult thing for me to do consistently and applying that 1% or the wildly unambitious action. That's why it's unpopular. When I say wildly unambitious people love to like, they're, they're like, I don't wanna be unambitious I wanna be ambitious, which you, the thing is, is actually extremely ambitious to be. Wildly unambitious in a tiny way because it adds up. So a wildly unambitious goal would be, like you said, like for a seven. just feel like one feeling a tiny bit more that day, or for me it's it could be rolling out my yoga mat and doing one dumber dog. And it builds because it doesn't mean you don't do more. You can always do more, but can you do that one tiny thing every day? Like, so that there's no resistance whatsoever to that tiny unambitious goal. And then over time you really build on that. That's another thing you teach is the sleeper effect, which I really fell in love with there's the honeymoon effect. And then there's the sleeper effect. And I had never heard anyone communicate that as clearly as you did about how, if we, you know, we think. We want overnight change and we think it's gonna happen so quickly. But if we allow things to integrate and actually like, take a snapshot now, and then come back to ourselves a year later and look at how much growth we've had in that year, there's gonna be so much to celebrate and we need to allow periods of pause or rest or integration in our personal growth work. And that's where we see really transformational change happen.

Steph: 20:49

yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because we do expect that in others and we expect it in nature, but we tend to not expect it in ourselves. Like we wouldn't like plant a, a Rose Bush and expect it to be blooming the next day. But for some reason that's how we treat ourselves so often.

Jacqui: 21:08

yeah, yeah. yeah. Absolutely.

Steph: 21:11

so I really wanna hear, um, more about your work specifically, um, and, and kind of how you got here, like how, what that journey has been like and what you do and how you help your clients really? Because I think that there are gonna be people, obviously, who know, like, when I say EFT, they're gonna know what that means. I think there are a lot of people who are gonna be like, now, what what are you saying?

Jacqui: 21:36

like goal trauma. Pardon me? Yeah. Yeah.

Steph: 21:42

tell us more about that.

Jacqui: 21:44

Well, EFT is the acronym for emotional freedom techniques. So it is way more commonly called EFT because emotional freedom techniques is obviously a huge mouthful and actually probably even more commonly people will have heard it referred to as tapping. And that's because we literally use our fingertips to tap on different. Acupoints on the body and that stimulates a relaxation response while calming the stress response. So there's a physical component. It's actually a somatic tool, meaning it works with your body and works with your nervous system and bringing, you know, like I said, that relaxation response on board while calming the stress response, which like hands up, everybody, if anyone else is stressed a F right now, like, and I think that that's true at any time in life, like stress comes and goes, but we can all relate to what it feels like to be. Stressed, um, whether that's highly stressed or stressed as a baseline, like chronically stressed, where I hear that from a lot of women in particular, uh, that they have been feeling this like stress as a baseline for so long. They actually don't really know what it would feel like to not feel that way. Like we're almost out of touch with it. Like it's just normalized. Well, yeah, of course I'm stressed anyway, moving on. So tapping helps physically with that stress response as well as it's a mind body tool. So it also brings onboard your frontal lobe, your prefrontal cortex, because when we're in the limbic system, which is like the emotional brain or when we're in our reptilian brain, so chronic stress or your stress response is going to really trigger that fight or flight response. Right. Um, or in the limbic system, you're super emotional. So emotionally reactive and the Olympic system doesn't discern between, like, it's not specific, it's super general. So it's gonna scan what's happening right now. And if it's similar enough to something in the past where you have this like heightened emotional connection, then it feels the same. And so you react the same, even though it's actually could be completely different. So, um, tapping will calm the stress response physically as well as give you access to things like perspective logic. Um, it's a more like it's a cognitive more rational approach, but you don't do it by bypassing your emotions. You do it by regulating your emotions. And so no toxic positivity, which is one of my very favorite things about tapping. We're allowed to first tell the truth about whatever it is we're feeling. So if you're feeling calm, relaxed, grounded, quote, unquote, happy, whatever those feelings are. You can amplify those with tapping and feel that even more. Or if you're feeling stressed, sad. Um, if you're dealing with grief, anxiety, um, disappointment, sad, like what do we do with those feelings? So first you work through some of that in tapping and it doesn't leave you there. It leads you through that feeling experience. And then you, you come, I would say out to the other side, but you come through it to something else. So it doesn't just leave you there. So that's one of my very favorite things about tapping is we're often told to feel our feelings. Failure feelings, but we're not told how, or we're not, or maybe we are told how sometimes we are told how, um, often we're not, sometimes we are. And then when we are told how we're not given a tool to actually do it so it's you just left feeling again, like a failure and like it's working for it. Meaning self-help or personal growth or stress reduction, like these things, these nebulous tools are working for everyone else. Well, you're the only one kind of stuck in your C pool of stress and feeling like there must be something wrong with me because everybody else has figured it out by now. And that is just not, not the truth. So that's the, the crux of my work. I, I work with highly sensitive growth oriented people who are probably have come through quite a bit of. self-help or personal development to this point and are still feeling like they're up against some kind of an invisible wall. Like what, why can't I get through this? Why can't I get past this? Like, I feel kind of stuck. Nothing's working. I should be farther along by now. And I use those quotation marks very intentionally because of course there's self-judgment in there. Um, so they're people who tend to be really hard on themselves, have high expectations, maybe have a really strong, critical voice are really emotionally reactive, um, and are feeling just generally stressed. And that, again, there's a wide range of what that stress might mean or how that feels for each individual. But ultimately what I, what people usually come to me for is all right. I, I can sense that something's off and I've tried a bunch of other things and there's still something here and I don't wanna stay like this for the next 20 years.

Steph: 27:16

Yeah,

Jacqui: 27:17

so now what, and that's what EFT tapping can really support somebody through. So yeah, that's the crux of my work anyways.

Steph: 27:25

Yeah. No, that's so helpful. And I think, you know what you were saying earlier about like every, everyone else seems to have figured it out and I think we all, or most of us anyway, start to think that to some extent. And when in reality, it's just like, you're the only person for whom you can see behind the curtain genuinely like, like in a real honest way. Um, even people who are like, who are very authentic and do let you see behind the curtain a lot of the time, it's not. I mean, like, it's just, we don't do that fully for anyone else, you

Jacqui: 27:56

Yeah, yeah, That.

Steph: 28:00

and so, yeah, I think that that comparison thing, or, or like the agitation too, I love the thing that you always say. Um, you've been guess lit by self-help

Jacqui: 28:11

Oh, my goodness. So true though. It's so true. I mean, so that I talk about the three ways that we've been gas lit by self-help and there is a free class on my website. If people wanna dive into that. Um, I didn't, I changed the name. I used to call it gas lit by self-help, but I found that a lot of people don't even really know what gas lighting truly is. So I think I titled it something now, like how self-help is keeping you stressed and stuck and what to do instead. But I still cover the three ways that gas, um, that self-help like is gaslighting us. And I don't mean that. I think probably you and I would be in the category of self. Like just like Renee brown is categorized as self-help and she herself says I'm not actually, self-help, I'm a social scientist, so, but probably we'd be under the banner of self-help. So obviously not all self-help is created equal and they're really, really incredible humans. They're doing great work in self-help, but as an industry street self-help benefits when it keeps you stuck, because then you go back for more right. So, yeah. So there are three main ways that, uh, for sure I can see how self-help is keeping us stuck and, um, it's not helpful. That's what I always say. Self-help when it isn't helpful than what do we do?

Steph: 29:25

Right. Yeah, because I'm always suspicious of things that are like, you just have to keep doing this. You have to keep trying again, if you're not growing yet, then you know, you're not trying hard enough and you need to

Jacqui: 29:35

oh, don't even get me started on that one. Yes,

Steph: 29:38

And so I think that what I really like about your work is yes, you have programs and you work with people one on one, but it's also teaching people how to do this themselves. Um, because well, and I, I also kind of think that speaks to who you are, like, even as an Ingram eight, where it's like, you want to empower people to be able to access this from the themselves, not to like constantly rely on you, but to

Jacqui: 30:05

that's right. Mm-hmm

Steph: 30:06

along.

Jacqui: 30:07

yeah, that's exactly it. So that's, I mean, that's the gift that tapping has given to me is it's a tool that's literally at my own fingertips and I can use it at any time. It's always there for me, just like we are truly, always there for ourselves. So one of the intentions and all of my work is to. You create your own soft place to land for yourself. And again, how do you do that? How do you come home to yourself? And so I do have a community called being human together that it's a 10 week experience and people come into it for that time, but people often choose to stay. Not because they don't now have the tools to do it for themselves, but because they've now found a community of like minded and like hearted people and then personal growth becomes a fun adventure instead of a feel bad place. Right? Like it is always like, I love, like I said, personal growth is my number one value and I love growing and changing. And I don't love the language of be your, the best version of.

Steph: 31:05

Mmm

Jacqui: 31:06

for me the way I internalize that again. And it could be an Anya ground, eight thing, but I really get anything. That's like the best it's too big for me. Like I just have to go all in. Like it's like, I have to be the best at that. Then I have to be the best version of me. There's so much pressure in the words, the best for me live your best life. Now I'm like, oh my God, I dunno what that is. So for me, that's too, there's too much pressure. If that works for someone else, you can call it whatever you want. I prefer to call it your favorite version of you. So that's the fun, that's the, like the new adventure. It's like, how do we grow into our favorite version of ourselves? And I really think that beautifully dovetails with your work with the engram. It's like, okay. So as an engram eight. What's my favorite version of myself. And, um, that's the adventure that I think that we really wanna be invited on. And what doesn't come along on that adventure is the inner critic. So that harsh inner voice or the, um, you know, the, the whip at our back or the tisk of the, like the finger, like, you know, you should have those things we learn to leave behind because they truly are not helpful. And so you were mentioning, trying harder. I read someone, uh, once said I'm not gonna remember her name, but I saw this. Um, I think she might have even read written a book, but I haven't, I haven't read the book yet. Something about like, instead of trying harder, try softer. So that's some language that I've adopted in my own work. Because again, as in any gram eight, you can imagine that the idea of trying softer. Is very it's it's transformational for me, everything for me is about try harder. I think one of your Instagram posts was some, I can't remember tell me you're an eight without telling me you're an eight or something like that. And I think I messaged you the story of, um, I took a wheel pottery class in my early twenties and I was, she, the instructor taught us how to center the clay. She demonstrated it for us. And then we were asked now practice and we centered our own.

Steph: 33:12

mm-hmm

Jacqui: 33:12

I'm there on my wheel and I'm doing the thing and I'm trying so hard, so right. Trying hard like this clay is going to be mastered by me. I will win. I will control this clay. Like it will be centered so much like forceful energy there. And she came around, her name was Hilda. She came around and at the time she seemed ancient to me, I'm sure she was only 50 came around and she asked me to stop the wheel and lift up my hands for a moment. She goes, I just wanna see what you're doing there. So I stopped the wheel, lifted my hands and blood is dripping down from both of my like pinky knuckles, because I was, I mean, clay is little shards of glass, right. I was literally grinding down my knuckles in my attempt to try harder. So I love that analogy because when I remembered that it was actually specifically, um, in doing some, any groundwork that I was thinking of that memory and going, huh? that is like the journey of my life has been, how do I try softer? Because you can still center the clay. In fact, not just still, you actually can center the clay. I mean, I never successfully centered the clay when I tried to force it to my will and trying to force myself to my will has proved very counterproductive for me. It feels bad. It feels like I'm always failing. I'm never measuring up and not living up to my potential, not living my best life now. Cause I could always do better. So instead it's reframing it to, how can I grow into my favorite version of myself? How can I try softer today? What would a wildly unambitious goal look like for today? Trusting that then it all comes together. Right? And then it all adds up in the end.

Steph: 34:57

yeah. Yeah. And I. I, I love that analogy too, because which, by the way, the book, um, is by Andy Cober, I'm not sure if I'm saying that. Right, but it's called tri softer. I haven't read it either, but I love that concept. And I, it is something that I've used too with eights, because there is that real, like intensity around doing, just doing everything harder and that will make it work and it just does not work

Jacqui: 35:27

totally my life in a nutshell. Yes. Yeah, the intensity is real for sure. But I used to feel so much judgment on myself about that intensity. Right. And now I really embrace it as it's this little special bit of magic that I have that helps me to. I, I think of it as a real playfulness now. Like I bring the intensity, I bring it to my work. I mean, that's how I show up big for all of my students and clients. And that's how, I mean, the whole gas lit by self help thing. I mean, I, I, I can't even help myself. Like if I see it, I'm like, I cannot not say it. And even if it's unpopular and countercultural, it's like, I literally like have to. And I actually really like that about the eight in me. Um, that part of it feels powerful and purposeful. And so that part, I really like, um, you may want to ask my husband and kids. How about shows up sometimes,

Steph: 36:27

right.

Jacqui: 36:29

the best place to show up with intensity is

Steph: 36:33

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah, Well, and I, I admire it so much, um, too, because we've talked about this some, um, just like differences between us, cuz I think, you know, both of us are, are similar in the sense that we're both like trying to, um, you know, do big things with our businesses and like work with people and like help people in a way that also, I mean, I think we're aligned in the sense that we want to empower people to do these things for themselves and, and not to build that reliance upon us, but to, to help encourage'em along the way. Um, and it's so funny because I think we can each be a little bit critical of our own, uh, way of doing that, but I really appreciate how you have more of that sense of like it's okay to risk a little bit, and I'm just gonna put it out there and it doesn't have to be like, um, like I don't have to have it all figured out before I begin.

Jacqui: 37:33

mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah, yeah. That is, I mean, is that an engram thing? I don't know. I've always been very action oriented and been willing to, I would say I'm risk averse. I actually am someone who struggled with a lot of anxiety in my life and still I have anxiety pop up every now and again, but EFT tapping has really helped me with that. Like I used to wake up anxious every morning with that pit in my stomach and just feel like no matter. Like, I never felt like enough for the day. Like, I didn't feel like I had enough energy time, patience, grit, like any, like anything. I just felt defeated before I began like overwhelmed and anxious. So if anyone else out there can relate to that, not a fun way to wake up. I mean, we can say that with like so much compassion and empathy. Um, and that is honestly like my, one of the free tools that I offer is a, is a session it's a little, 10 minute EFT tapping session called start your day, calm, clear, and grounded. And that's why I chose to create that one is because that's something that I've needed for a long time. That's why I endeavor to do just a tiny bit of yoga in the morning, cuz it really sets my day off on the right foot. But I'm somebody who tried to do the like 5:00 AM miracle morning. Do you know what I'm talking about? When I say that? Oh, it's so like, it's a very, um, Hmm. I wanna be careful how I say this, but it is a very white male approach to entrepreneurial living. So it's like, if you wanna get out there and tackle the day, and if you wanna crush your goals, you need to be up before anyone else's and get that first hour in the day. And you're supposed to organize it with like 20 minutes is journaling and 20 minutes is exercise and 20 minutes is, and I tried that for a while because, uh, it's the stuff I was reading. It's like, get up and have your miracle morning. Look, if that's working for someone, then I definitely don't wanna, I don't know if we're allowed to curse on here, but I don't wanna shit on it. Like if that's working for someone, then obviously do what works for you. But a lot of us are taking these cookie cutter. Approaches, because we're told that that's how to get to our goal or that's how to live our best life now, or be the best version of ourselves. And we're trying to do that. I was a mom of very young kids when I was trying to do that. It felt like death to me. it did not feel good. That's one thing that I love what Adrian Misler, um, with yoga, with one of the things that I love about her brand is she says, find what feels good. And that's something I'm just absolutely obsessed with now, where what if we gave ourselves permission to find what feels good and go with that? We're so afraid that if it feels good, it's like, if it doesn't hurt a little, then it's probably not going to help us grow. It's the whole, like, get out of your comfort zone thing. And again, I think that none of these things I think are intended to be all or nothing like getting out of your comfort zone is important. That's the whole thing, like what your point is, is am I willing to like risk a little or, um, put something out there before it'ss. Perfect or beyond the possibility of any kind of criticism. Yeah. I actually am willing to do that because failure is part of the journey towards success. And so that is uncomfortable for me. I don't feel comfortable doing it. So get out of your comfort zone. Does that advice? That self offers us, is that helpful? Sometimes it is, but it's, it's too many eggs in the one basket it's always get out of your comfort zone or punch fear in the face. What about the, I think this kind of goes back to our conversation about the sleeper effect. It's allowing there to be seasons in our, in our day, like rhythms there's rhythms in our day, in our week, in our month, in our year. Allowing ourselves to be rhythmic, to be seasonal, to understand that sometimes you need to get outta your comfort zone and sometimes you need to find what feels good.

Steph: 41:49

Yeah.

Jacqui: 41:49

we tend to go only towards the, get out of your comfort zone, push, push, push, push push, which is leading burnout.

41:59

Okay, I'm going to leave you hanging right here and we will pick up here. Next week for the rest of this episode again like i said i keep saying it it was such a good conversation and i think you're really going to enjoy it so come back here next week and you'll be able to listen to part two Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify