Obstacles Each Type Encounters When Starting a Business with Kristi Rowles

Kristi Rowles: 1:30

I think that's really important to say about sixes as well, that we may not fear failure per se, but there is something in our hardwiring of like it's safest to do what I know I'm good at. Which then translates into, I don't want to risk it if I'm not going to be good at it. Particularly when it's tied to like our survival and our income.

Samson Q2U Microphone & Golden Delicious 3: 1:57

Hello, and welcome back to Enneagram in real life, a podcast where we explore how to apply our any grand knowledge in our daily lives. And I'm your host Steph barren hall. And on this week's episode, I am welcoming back Christy roles. And I'll give you a little bit of an intro into Kristy. If you haven't heard her on the podcast before. So Christie is a mental health therapist, turn Enneagram coach, she runs Enneagram university, which she launched in 2020. To train people in any grim, loving humans to be the most competent and confident coaches on the market. Christy is known for teaching the Enneagram in a way that's accessible, practical, fun, and compassion driven. She and her partner, Nick called central Florida home, Christie's got a thing for chocolate. Bright colors and fun earrings. And at the beginning of 2023, actually Christie purchased. an earrings and accessories brand, which I'll, I'll share the link for you as well here. And they make really fun, bright hearing. So if that's your thing, definitely go check it out. But on today's episode, I wanted to ask Kristy to come back because something, I hear a lot from different types of people, whether that's people who are learning about the Enneagram or looking into Enneagram coaching, They're wondering how do I get started and what do I need to know? And how do I market myself? And I think that one thing I've noticed as somebody who has done multiple different types of certifications in the Enneagram in particular, Is that there's a lot of information and a lot of really good quality information out there. On the Enneagram and how to use it in coaching. And there are tons of people who are very skilled and qualified coaches. However, a lot of these programs are lacking this business component and. Christie. And I initially went through the same Enneagram program several years ago. we both graduated from, um, that initial program. And after that program, Christy and I, who both had other experience in running businesses. We noticed that a lot of the people around us were constantly saying like, how do you do this? How do you price things? How do you create programs or all these different things? Now, of course, I'm not an expert in that. I'm still learning as I go, but I have several years of experience under my belt at this point. And it's something that I love sharing with people who are newer on the journey. And so Christie actually took that same experience of, of noticing how many people were mystified by actually building a coaching business out of, Being a coach and created her own program. So, um, I think what really makes any Graham university special is that Christie teaches you not only how to do the deep work and, you know, she hires these different people that you've heard on the podcast. Like Jessica, Denise Dixon and teach you a Gorham. Both of them. Um, have coached within Christie's program, as professors. But also. She teaches her students how to actually run a business, how to run a coaching business. And that is an entirely different animal from just doing the coaching part. Because I think for a lot of people who care deeply, coaching. Can come quite easily. Especially once you unlearn some of the assumptions that we have, like, for example, A lot of us who love to help people love to give advice. And actually that's not what coaching is about. So you have to unlearn some of those things, but then you actually have to learn how to talk to people about money and how to sell. Your coaching. Work and knowing yes, it's transformational work, but also knowing that it matters if you actually have money in your pocket as well. Um, so Christy teaches all of that within Enneagram university. Um, so if you want to check that out, go ahead and check out the link in my show notes. I put a link for you guys to read more about Enneagram university. There. but on today's episode, we're going to be breaking down each type and some of the challenges that the different types face. In. Going into. A coaching business, whether that's an Enneagram business or not, and really just business more broadly. So Christie is a type six and I'm a type three. Um, but we both have these different approaches to starting a business and have had different experiences. And so we talk about that a little bit. Um, we talk a lot about the self doubt and the questioning and like, will this ever work out all of those sorts of things? So, this is a really great episode. I'm super grateful for Christie going back on the podcast and please check out her links below if you're at all interested in any grime university, um, and feel free to reach out to Christie on Instagram. If you have any questions at all, again, her social links will be in the bio. So. Without further ado here is my conversation with Kristy roles.

Steph Barron Hall: 6:31

Well, Christy, welcome back to Enneagram in Real Life.

Kristi Rowles: 6:34

Thank you for having me. Happy to be back with you.

Steph Barron Hall: 6:37

I'm so excited to be here talking today a little bit more about your process of becoming this entrepreneur extraordinaire that you are and also to hear a little bit more about how you work with different people And all of that good stuff.

Kristi Rowles: 6:53

Love it. Happy to be here.

Steph Barron Hall: 6:54

Yeah. So I know the last time that you were on the podcast, we talked a little bit about your story as a type six becoming an entrepreneur. But I'd love to hear if you can, what was that like for you? What was like the push that. made you step out and say, yes, I'm going to do this. And how did it feel?

Kristi Rowles: 7:13

Yeah. Scary to no one's surprise. There were a lot of things I think over a series of years, honestly, that I think one of the things initially was my partner is a type nine, and he said to me once in all of my like, Oh, what if it doesn't work out? Like I'm, you're leaving a stable, consistent, reliable job with regular income, and you're launching into something completely unknown, which would freak anyone out. But even more so for those of us who already have pretty intense anxiety. And he said to me once. There's very few things you can do that you can't undo. So if you just take a shot for two months or three months and you hate it, you make no money, you have no success, you're not enjoying it, you can go back and get a job. You're not committing forever. That was really helpful for me. It's just an experiment. I just get to try. I also think having a fairly strong seven wing helps me be a little bit more adventurous and then also being dominant in the sexual instinct. I've got some of that eight energy which creates a little bit more of a fighter in me. It creates a little bit more of the rebellious, not do things in the standard traditional way. Create my own rules, that sort of thing, so I do sometimes feel if it weren't for those two parts of me, it would have been a harder leap as well.

Steph Barron Hall: 8:38

Yeah. I'm curious. And I guess this is like me thinking about this because I've been talking with a lot of sixes lately who are trying to start their own business or in some sort of leadership position. And I think one thing about sixes in general is they don't want to be left holding the bag, right?

Kristi Rowles: 8:53

Yep.

Steph Barron Hall: 8:54

want to be the one who's standing there. Like everyone else has gone. And now I'm on the hook.

Kristi Rowles: 8:59

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 9:00

But. There's a sense of not being prepared enough, not being quite ready, and I'm wondering what that was like for you at the beginning.

Kristi Rowles: 9:11

Yeah, so when I, my last 9 to 5, actually I remember saying to my boss, I will go down on a sinking ship with you, but only if we're going down together. That helped me understand a lot of the way that I process risk in my life, because I'm not scared of something failing. I don't deal with, thankfully, some of that even as much imposter syndrome, I think, as some other people. I don't even necessarily know why, but I'm very grateful for that. But there's something about I will take even bigger risks if I'm with somebody else. So being aware of that in myself has been interesting and just like a challenge to watch. And I think for sixes, what freaks us out sometimes is not knowing what's coming. And it's the fear of whatever the thing may be. Whether, we get pegged as like worst case scenario, which I think is definitely true to a degree. But sometimes it's also just I don't know what's coming. I don't know what challenges I'm going to have. And that is what freaks me out. So for me, a lot of my work in this role now being working for myself for six years has been, do I trust that I know how to navigate situations? Cause that's really the question. I can't possibly know what's going to happen in two years or even six months. Know what business decision I need to make or what investment to make a risk to take. But can I trust that I know how to navigate? Asking myself questions and sitting alone with myself and getting clarity about what feels honest and authentic and right in that moment. And if I can develop that trust within myself, then I don't have to freak out about the future scenarios because I just trust that I will be able to navigate them. I will also just preface that that's a 6's dream. In terms of that actually happening for me, sometimes it's a lot more of you've been able to handle everything so far. You always figure something out. You are not alone in this. You have support. So I'm, like, coaching myself through that process. And asking myself to continually trust myself. So I wouldn't say that's... It's easy or natural or whatever, but it has become easier over time as I've looked back and been able to witness. I was scared then too. And look, I did it. So once that happens enough times, even in simple ways, it makes it a little bit easier to trust it moving forward.

Steph Barron Hall: 11:28

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I, I feel like I wonder if more image conscious types or more other referencing types like 2, have more of the imposter syndrome? I Felt like everyone has it. Like I work a lot with teams like executives and things like that. And has imposter syndrome sometimes.

Kristi Rowles: 11:48

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think to some degree, part of my background, too, is that as a mental health therapist is like I've had people in my office who are like CEOs and CFOs and very high level positions that are just, scared Children internally. It's like that inner child is still scared of that inner child is still nervous about rejection or failing or all the things. So I think in some ways when that comes up for me, maybe I still have it, but maybe I don't believe it as much. I guess because I'm like, no one knows what they're doing. The people that I see who appear the most successful, they also feel self doubt. So I think maybe I've just accepted that as a part of the human experience where I don't buy into it as much or react to it as much because I'm like, Oh yeah, that just reminds me that I'm human and that I'm normal. If people who don't self, self doubt or question a little bit freak me out and make me more nervous than people who do. Because I'm like okay. We're human. No, we don't know what we're doing, but we're doing the best we can, and that's enough. Oh,

Steph Barron Hall: 12:56

I have experienced as a three that sometimes people just always assume that I'm faking it. Like they always assume that I don't know what I'm talking about and then I'm like overselling it. Um,

Kristi Rowles: 13:09

I have never experienced you that way, just to clarify.

Steph Barron Hall: 13:12

I think that I try really hard not to show up in that way, but sometimes I'll get, messages or whatever and somebody's Oh, of course you would. You're such a three, blah, blah. And I'm like, wait, no, I actually know what I'm talking about.

Kristi Rowles: 13:23

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 13:24

It's interesting. and I think threes hear that and they really take it to heart because it's oh my gosh,

Kristi Rowles: 13:32

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 13:32

found out. but I think that might be like a really helpful. Set up for the different ways that we approach these types of businesses, because You've been working with a lot of coaches over the last few years as you've been building your Enneagram University. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about that and what it is and what your aim is with this program.

Kristi Rowles: 13:55

Yeah, so actually, I'll just share something that I talked with one of our professors about yesterday. So she is a psychologist, PhD, you guys. And she is literally I think the group is going well, like she's facilitating a group of EU students. I think it's I'm like, Are you kidding? She's brilliant. So I think even, That is see, no, none of us know, and that's a beautiful thing to me. It's relieving to all of us. But, one of the things she shared in her email was how she was sharing with the, our students and the group that she's facilitating that sometimes her two ness shows up in the way that she facilitates. And, that, She feels responsible sometimes to make sure everyone has space to share and that everyone's feeling heard and everyone's getting from the group what they need and all of that. And I think that process of just being mindful of how your own type shows up in the way that you lead or teach or interact with clients is everything. And the more that we can normalize that, the more that we can say I'm just doing the best I can. I'm still a human. But like I do have some things to offer and that's enough and so For all of us regardless of our type the goal isn't eradicate ourselves from our type 3 ness or our type 6 ness or 2 ness it's really about waking up to your type ness and how it shows up in your life and Coming alongside sounds very therapy But like coming alongside those parts of you that are scared or insecure or self doubting and saying okay It's okay that we feel them and we're gonna move forward. So Every type has issues and doubts and things that trip them up in the process of becoming a business owner or a coach. And then learning how to nurture those parts is really, that's the gold for us.

Steph Barron Hall: 15:44

I recently heard this content creator I really like. Have you ever watched Colin and Samir on I really like them. Samir... One time. They basically are like creators who create a content about creators. Yeah. So it's they have a YouTube show and they do Q and A or they call it creator support. And then they have interviews with all these different people. It's typically like YouTube centric people. bUt Samir said, he was talking about when he first started his first company and he was like you only get the chance to be that like stupid basically once. And sometimes, yeah, because sometimes like now looking at what you know now, you have so many more skills, but you also know how hard it is. And so I think that sometimes not knowing. challenges is actually one of the reasons that we're able to begin.

Kristi Rowles: 16:45

Yeah, it's so true. It's like, Asking yourself on day one of a new job to make a decision that you would make 10 years in. Like, how could you possibly expect that? Or sometimes with EU, I'll meet with students or prospective students who are curious about becoming coaches and we'll have a consult and they'll say, I'm just so scared I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm like that's the point. You, don't yet know, because you you haven't been through a program yet. You haven't been equipped with the skills. There's a lot that you haven't absorbed yet. So how could you possibly feel the confidence at this point? And to not be scared of that, I think to last in, as an entrepreneur, you have to become comfortable with the feeling of not knowing. And that goes against everything from when we were children up to be raised. It's all about proficiency. Quizzing, I need A's, I need to perform, I need to be the best, I need to get these awards. There's no award for being a human and trying but not nailing it. And that's unfortunate. To some degree, we have to get used to sucking, to a degree.

Steph Barron Hall: 17:50

Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 17:52

to try again.

Steph Barron Hall: 17:53

I can't say that I'm used to that, but I, what I will say is like the exhilaration of figuring something out and be like, Oh, that works. That makes

Kristi Rowles: 18:03

It's a high.

Steph Barron Hall: 18:04

The fact that like I hate the discomfort of the uncertainty. Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 18:09

Yeah. It's probably speaking right into my sixness, but I'm like, what I do as an entrepreneur is solve problems all day long.

Steph Barron Hall: 18:15

Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 18:16

That's just what we do. If you know how to find information and answer questions you can do this.

Steph Barron Hall: 18:23

Yeah. it's funny I'm curious like we're gonna get into all the types, but I'm thinking about You know some of the ways that three and six differ and when I think about when I first started I This business, so nine types. And then also my previous one with florals, like there, there's that moment in parks and rec, I think Andy Dwyer is like, I did not explain to you how little I thought about this, like that exactly. And I think really like the reason and seven, sometimes I see seven, two or starting a bit, like every time I talk to them, they have a new business that they've just started. Not that they're not thinking about it. It's just that They're like, yeah, let's go. Let's try it. So for some reason, three is often, we'll do that as well sometimes, but have this intense fear of failure. And that actually can be a really bad combination.

Kristi Rowles: 19:15

Yeah. For sure.

Steph Barron Hall: 19:17

hearing you talk about not having that fear of failure, like fear of maybe other things, but not having the fear of failure is just such a superpower in a sense.

Kristi Rowles: 19:30

Yeah, and like that, that it is to you as a three because in my head, I'm like, Oh failure is inevitable. Like I've just accepted that fact. But there's other things that freak me out that to you are like, Oh, who cares? And it's just that's so fascinating to, to again, be mindful of how our types show up in the way that we talk to ourselves about our businesses, what we expect of ourselves as business owners. It's, The level of self sabotage is so grand. The opportunity for self sabotage is so grand. There's also just as much, if not more, opportunity to like, wow ourselves and shock ourselves of what we're able to achieve. But I, in an effort to be completely transparent, one of the things that I've come to realize myself, because I told you before we hopped on and I have a new university, but I also just acquired another business this year, which is like women's accessories. It's inclusive, fun fashion brand. And it is the first time that I've taken on a project that I knew that I didn't know if I would be good at. And I think that's really important to say about sixes as well, that we may not feel fear failure per se, but there is something in our hardwiring of like it's safest to do what I know I'm good at. Which then translates into, I don't want to risk it if I'm not going to be good at it. Particularly when it's tied to like our survival and our income. That part feels relevant and fair. But, yeah, there's layers of it there for everybody.

Steph Barron Hall: 21:02

Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, it's interesting recently was talking with my husband about doing some improvements on our house that are just inevitable when you have a house that's 80 years old, right? and I realized, I was like, Oh, anytime we talk about this, I over identify with the experience of feeling like I'm not doing enough. And I'm like, if I can get into problem solving mode, this is going to not be an issue,

Kristi Rowles: 21:34

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 21:35

like move over to that six brain, Um,

Kristi Rowles: 21:38

it takes...

Steph Barron Hall: 21:39

of three is a lot.

Kristi Rowles: 21:41

Yes, and that takes you from your head to your heart or from your heart to your head because the heart is that fear. It's that child inside of us. It's I don't want to mess up. I don't want to be abandoned. I don't want to, be a loser, whatever the stories are that we tell ourselves. And the head is Oh, okay, this is strategic. Here's how we can solve this problem. If It's a weird thing to be a business owner and to come from a mental health background to where it's like our feelings matter. We create space for them. But then there's this other part of my brain that's like we solve problems. We put our feelings here. We feel them. We put them here and we strategically move forward. And it's just a dance like it's a dance to do all of those things and to make sure that we are creating space for all the things.

Steph Barron Hall: 22:24

Yeah, totally. Okay. So in Enneagram University, you teach coaches about the Enneagram, work with themselves, and then how to use it and build an actual business.

Kristi Rowles: 22:36

Yeah, for sure. So you and I went through the same program initially when we got certified, and a lot of the people that graduated were really on the back end saying, Oh, my gosh I don't know actually what to do with any of this information. I don't know how to practically use it with clients, help them create change in their lives, and I definitely don't know how to find clients. And so really, the heart of building you was creating a it. A space, a training space where people actually left feeling confident and competent to do all the things required to have a coaching business. And it can look like a million things. We have, we train a lot of therapists. That's because More than half of our staff are trained as therapists or a higher psychologist. And so we have a lot of therapists who integrate it in their practice, but we also have therapists who do coaching on the side. We have HR managers and executive leaders who get trained and do managerial work in their organizations. We also have people who specialize in couples or specialize in one on one work or whoever. So coaches do all sorts of different things, but whatever they do, we want them to feel really confident. Teaching them the ins and outs of the system of the Enneagram, obviously. But then next level is those practical coaching skills. And then the third one is how to find clients sustainably and to build a business that can really move and transition with you. Right now, our economy is so crazy. And so one of the conversations we're having with a lot of our EU community is right now, money is tight for a lot of people. And so individuals may not have the financial capacity to book individual one on one sessions, but companies have budgets for this. and they need to spend it. And so can we shift and target what we're doing to a different industry? Even if it's not our dream I dream of doing one on one work. Okay, great. Let's do this to make you money now. And then we'll come back to what you want to do. So learning how to be flexible and take ownership of your business and do really whatever you want to build a business that you love is critical because to me, there's nothing sadder than someone loving the Enneagram, having their life totally changed. Loving people, wanting to help them change their lives and then not being able to sustain it because they don't actually know practical application and they don't know how to make money and therefore have to go get a traditional job again. That's just so sad. So that's really the heart behind why we launched EU.

Steph Barron Hall: 24:57

find, cause I've done three certifications now, and I think it's pretty rare to find those two things together. And, most of my work is like with corporate, but that's also my background as well as working with organizations and it's, it is different in a lot of ways. But I think at the end of the day, people are people. And so those coaching skills that you learn can be used in that setting as well.

Kristi Rowles: 25:24

For sure. And I always say, if you're working with a group. It's a very sexual dominant subtype thing to say, but the group is full of individual people. That is really important, because when we're coaching a group, we don't want to just teach concepts, or like, all threes are like this, or all ones are like that that's so not helpful. So it's, what is it like for you? Let's talk about you individually, and helping each individual in that room, whether it's a group or a workshop, a big conference or whatever, really engage with the material in a way that is helpful and life changing for them.

Steph Barron Hall: 25:55

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Okay. I love hearing that. And I love, we've been talking around this idea of the challenges that we face. So I would love to hear from you. What are the challenges that you've seen from each type as you've worked with various people, various types within your program?

Kristi Rowles: 26:15

Yeah, so a few things as we go through, right? I always want to preface and say here is something that probably won't shock everybody as we go through types, because some of them are built around like the stereotypes. Not always. And there's so much more depth to people, the way that it presents, Why is there what the messages are like this can look like a million things for every single type as we walk through. So I just want to preface with we'll talk about something, but the way that it looks can look very different. So if we want to just start with type one. Obviously for type ones, they are driven towards doing things really effectively, really good, right? They want to be seen as somebody who is ethical, someone who's doing things, some type ones, not all, but some really fixate on the word perfect. That's such high standard. And obviously sometimes as a business owner, the way that can trip us up is waiting so long, not publishing what you're doing, not taking a risk, not launching your website because this could be better. This could be better. Why need to move this button here? This needs to be there. And at the end of the day, I always say to ones like, what's your goal? Is your goal have the best website? Is your goal work with clients? Is your goal make money? What's the goal? And then helping you make decisions based on that goal. Is your website? Is someone going to book with you or not book with you? Because your button is here or here. No one cares. So really again, seeing those parts, that perfectionist tendency or like that super high standard, can I allow myself to go out there and do the next right thing, the best I know for now, and then allow myself to evolve that as I go without it meaning that I'm bad or I have terrible work ethic or, my, my website is trash. Getting out of your head in that way and reconnecting to the heart of why you want to do all this work to begin with. That's a huge leap sometimes for once. Yeah what I would say, getting out of your head, dropping into your heart space, getting into your gut, right? Turning off that constant assessment and things. The other thing I would say for one's is give yourself a deadline and do not relent on your timeline because, at the end of the day, like if you have a product out there that is absolutely perfect, but no one knows about it, that's tragic. That's more tragic than having something out there that's less than perfect, but people know and are actually getting, help and support because of it. So set yourself a deadline, move on. Challenge the voice in your head that says, if it's not perfect, it's not good. Create a good enough and let it be. And see that as an act of love to yourself. That, being compassionate to yourself. That's so huge.

Steph Barron Hall: 28:59

Yeah. Something I've also seen with ones is like asking questions about like wanting to know where this coaching program, for example, is certified, like all those sorts of things.

Kristi Rowles: 29:10

True.

Steph Barron Hall: 29:11

And then thinking, Oh, I can only do this work if I meet this criteria.

Kristi Rowles: 29:17

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 29:18

and recognizing is that true or is it not, that assumption that it's the most important thing. Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 29:31

by certain overarching boards. And we do that on purpose. And sometimes that credentialing piece, people get tripped up on. And what I want to say is who, tell me a coach who's been asked by a client, is your program accredited? And what's their criteria? No one asks that like we are our generation more than ever is saying, do I know you and do I trust you? Then I'm gonna, I'm gonna hire you like that's the interesting beauty about the online space as well. No one's show me your diploma and all of your, what's that called, where it shows you all your grades forever. No one cares. Transcript. It's been a minute.

Steph Barron Hall: 30:10

I've only been asked that sort of, those sorts of qualifying questions for corporate.

Kristi Rowles: 30:15

Right, and I think depending on who you're serving, right? So if I am going to a group of educators like they value credentials, not the same if I'm going to a group of. I don't single dads or something. You know what I'm saying? So who's your group and what matters to them. And if you don't want to work with corporate, is it necessary for you to like, go and get this whole extensive thing? And it's the rebellious in me, but honestly it's all made up anyway, right? Like the people who are in charge of those organizations, they just decided that these are like regulations and people are like, you know what? I'll sign on to that. There's a little part of me that's I just don't buy into all of that. Plus, it's so controlling. And as a business owner, it's like a lot of the overarching accreditation boards want our want me to go through hundreds of hours of training with them. And I'm like, I have a master's in counseling. I've been an entrepreneur for six years now, like no offense, but I don't need that. I'm not going to invest my time there. They also want to approve every single product we launch and every single professor we bring on our team. And I'm just not willing to do that. So just being mindful of what's really the payoff. Does this credential, does it really matter and bring value to you or is it just like going to go after your name and But it's not actually going to have a payoff. So challenging some of those things are important

Steph Barron Hall: 31:36

Okay, what about type twos?

Kristi Rowles: 31:38

Type twos obviously one thing that will shock no one is to a degree like the focus on helping and so To such an extent sometimes that it's like, where's that line where it crosses over from helping in a way that is authentic versus over giving. And so one thing I see with twos is like discounting a lot of their services, like massively discounting, doing things for free. And I always tell people, I heard it somewhere, but like people invest what they invest. If I pay you zero dollars, I'm not that invested. For example, early on in my. process. I gifted coaching to a couple friend of mine, a typing session. And because I was like I need to practice. I don't trust myself yet. I'm not smart enough. So let me just give this away in practice. One of them came in 15 minutes later because they were like route link or wrangling up their kids. Then they came in like eating a bowl of pasta. And then it was like checking there. And I'm just like, you guys Could not care less about being here. This is not helpful for me and it's not helpful for you. So making sure that people are invested financially sometimes, energetically, using your best wisdom there. Another thing that comes up for Tuesdays when it comes to pricing, I always say, what price is going to make it worth it to you? The other way sometimes I ask that it's helpful is at what price would you be resentful that you feel like you gave more than. You've been honored in pay. So that's an important thing. Also with twos, the question of just like, how much space are you allowing for yourself to develop? Not always asking what do people want or what do people need, but really creating space to slow. Get in touch with your own heart, which like, takes a lot of digging sometimes for twos, for a lot of us, but for twos, like to find their own heart and say, what do I want? What's my vision? What do I love? What is going to fill me up? And because they're so others focused you will balance that out. So it's not a selfish act. Create space for that. You already have plenty of energy that's focused on other people. You'll be balanced.

Steph Barron Hall: 33:38

Yeah. So good for twos, I think.

Kristi Rowles: 33:42

Thanks. Yeah. Twos are precious. They're wired for this. That's another reason. It's like twos. I got to teach you business stuff because you are... You bring so much to the table, and you deserve to get paid for that, and to be able to continue doing work that you love. yeAh. That's a goodie.

Steph Barron Hall: 33:57

Tell me about threes.

Kristi Rowles: 33:59

Okay, you Tell us about Threes. A few things I'll say. The first thing is coming back to the credentialing. Threes love credentials. I get it. I'm not offended by it. And it's okay. But again, I always just want to say like, how is that really serving you? And is it Is it giving you the payoff that you want? wHat's the motivation behind that? And, Are you okay with that? Yeah, go for it.

Steph Barron Hall: 34:24

That is what we call the defense mechanism of identification.

Kristi Rowles: 34:28

Say more.

Steph Barron Hall: 34:29

Yeah so here's the way that I think about this a lot. This is like a really poignant example in my mind. I actually... watching The Office, Ed Helms character, Andy, he comes across as a three. I think in some ways he actually might be like a social two. But anyway, so he always is I went to Cornell. Like he's obsessed over identifies with his status as a Cornell alum and thinks that's what makes him good. That's what would make him good at his job, but it's not. And so I think sometimes for threes, we have to go back in. Inwardly and be like, what actually makes me good at this? Is it because I have all these illustrious certifications? Or is it because I sit with my clients and I'm able to participate in a coaching relationship with them and engage with them in a way that's going to support them to meet their goals?

Kristi Rowles: 35:17

Yes. Yeah, it also sometimes feels like it's and it creates. This kind of faux sense of security that you're qualified because there's that self doubt, and I don't think we talk about that enough with threes. We get Oh, they're they think they're all that they think, blah, blah, blah. It's actually, no, that's the opposite of what's happening. So looking for those qualifications soothes that imposter syndrome that is so popular. And so common, so it doesn't make it bad to have qualifications. I want to like super clarify that and like sometimes. For a lot of us, especially if we've never been trained, it's ethically, you probably should get some official training, so like training qualifications from a legitimate organization is relevant and important. But just being mindful too of what's motivating that and do you really need more or are you, and if you finish that, how qualified would you really feel? Are you then going to feel qualified or are you going to be like, I still don't know if I am, I need to get another. cAtching yourself in that process and just being curious about what's really going on is so big.

Steph Barron Hall: 36:21

Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 36:22

Yeah. Yeah. The other thing with threes, obviously, sometimes is I have so many three friends who are like, I spent my life and my business doing what other people asked me for. Very similar to twos. Very others focused and serve, very like wanting to serve other people as well. That's a genuine. Desire for threes to get into this helping industry so being mindful of but what do I want? What feels good to me rather than just reacting and responding because you can do a billion things and you can do them but what do you want to do? It's a question that sometimes threes don't ask

Steph Barron Hall: 36:59

Yeah. And then they get resentful.

Kristi Rowles: 37:01

Yeah And therefore the cycle continues

Steph Barron Hall: 37:05

Exactly. Okay, what about type fours?

Kristi Rowles: 37:08

Type fours so one of the things I love about fours is how they are rebellious in a whole different way than sometimes like the counterphobic sixes or the eights that just like buck authority. They are really like, I just want to do my own thing. Sometimes where that complicates it in business is they're The way that you show up as a business owner is unique to you period especially as a coach because you're not just selling The Enneagram anybody can google information on the Enneagram So like they're not buying that they're buying you the way that you teach it the way that you facilitate the way that you lead so trusting that and letting that be Sometimes the pressure of like I want to create something that's never existed before Can be really challenging. It doesn't mean that you can't and I'm all about trailblazing find your own path to whatever you want. That's the joy of owning your own business, but understanding. The time that takes to get going and that you are then not just educating people on the Enneagram, but you're educating them on this whole other sometimes approach to it. That's just another hurdle to climb. It doesn't mean it's not worth it. And if you know your market and you market to them and you're great on that, like it's no problem. But just being mindful of it's okay to do things that have existed before. It's okay to go with a traditional six session coaching package. Because the way that you do it is still gonna be different. And that's a beautiful thing. Just not making it harder for themselves is what I long for. For fours, sometimes.

Steph Barron Hall: 38:46

Yeah, and I think sometimes that leads to that overcomplicating and then, I'm sorry if you already said that,

Kristi Rowles: 38:54

go for it.

Steph Barron Hall: 38:55

But yeah, like the overcomplicating and being like way too specific

Kristi Rowles: 39:04

Two niched. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I also think too, like there's a degree sometimes for force as being in that heart center being internally focused, whereas twos and threes sometimes are externally focused. Force can be more internally. And so being mindful of yes, this is what you want, but not forgetting to build in the part that's also like a strategic Way of building a business. And so you can make up any fun, funky offer you want, but building a business like their strategies to that. There's approaches to that. It's a lot of it is cognitive. So let your vision be heart led, but don't Miss out on all the practical, strategic, heady parts to the process as well that exist that are easy to follow. For example, like email marketing, social media marketing building a sales funnel for your clients. There's. Processes that will just make it all easier for you. So make sure that you are like creating space to be strategic or Work with somebody who can help you do that hire a business coach That is strategic like that can help fill those gaps or partner with somebody and barter your time, you know Something like that where you're just making sure that you're creating space for the head work as well

Steph Barron Hall: 40:20

Good advice. tell us fives.

Kristi Rowles: 40:24

So fives, obviously we know, similarly to how sometimes think that threes think they're all that, sometimes people think like fives are geniuses, they know all the things, but internally, both of that, those experiences for threes and fives are really sometimes grounded in the fear of, I don't actually know anything. The difference between threes and fives in that regard is threes will be they have the umph to I'm going to try. I'm going to try something and I'm going to do it. Whereas five sometimes as a withdrawing type and as a doing repressed type can be so meticulous or so methodical that there is the analysis paralysis that sometimes shows up with ones as well. There's not the pressure to do it perfect, but there's the pressure to feel internally competent and ready and That is a major area, obviously, of self sabotage for fives. The other thing sometimes I see with fives is because unlike fours, where it's very heart focused and they need help with the strategy, sometimes fives are so cognitive or so strategic based that they lack the heart side of it. Not always. And let me just say, I hate the stereotype that fives aren't connected to their hearts. That's absolutely not true. Fives can be deeply feeling and very emotionally aware and intimate people. And I don't want to ride on that stereotype. But sometimes being connected with fives. Other people's feelings or like the marketing and the framing of your services can sometimes be a little bit of a challenge. So making sure that they are connecting to their own heart, sharing that in the process and as a coach. Like I said, people aren't just hiring you for the information you bring, they're hiring you. So being able to share vulnerably and still totally respect your privacy. You have boundaries and limits. You only share what you're comfortable with. But allowing yourself to be a human in the room as well and get in touch with your humanity rather than being too focused on the information or teaching or sometimes even The intention isn't lecturing, but because there's so much information, right? Figuring out, building the skill as a coach to give it in bite sizes that are actually digestible for your clients rather than let me tell you all the things I know. It's that isn't helping anybody make change probably, because now they're just overwhelmed. Staying connected to their heart is obviously so big, and healing for them personally and as business owners.

Steph Barron Hall: 42:46

Yeah. Yeah. And I can imagine how it would feel really exposing for fives to in their marketing in what, in ways that even to other people might not seem vulnerable, but it does feel really personal

Kristi Rowles: 42:59

Yeah,

Steph Barron Hall: 43:00

five.

Kristi Rowles: 43:00

One of the things that I'm really, I feel strongly about is because there's so much Instagram, Enneagrams, like it just came, it blew up in the last five years. Social media is like the tiniest sliver of how and where to find clients. And that's for some people and not for other people. And my experience is fives are like. I would rather gouge my eyes out. Not all of them, but a lot of them. Because it's just so daunting. And It's not fun. And so just I always tell our students at EU and all the people like there are a million ways to find clients that have nothing to do with online marketing and any social media platform. So that is just something just to encourage people like I've heard people say I want to be a coach, but like the idea of sharing my life so openly on social freaks me out. And I'm like, Okay, great. Don't do that. Let's talk about the other 100 ways to find clients. So Sixes.

Steph Barron Hall: 43:59

What about type six?

Kristi Rowles: 44:02

rEferencing to the beginning of our conversation obviously all the self doubt, all the fear of I don't know what I'm doing. And I will say one thing that sometimes I think gets missed with talking about sixes as well is the fear of fear. And we're fear, fearful of the unknown, fearful of worst case scenarios, blah, blah, blah, all the things. But also like the sensation of feeling dumb is. It's very common with sixes, and that freaks us out, and so sometimes I don't want to tackle that task because it's going to lead to me feeling stupid. For example, for me, technology I sometimes just wanna cry. I'm like, I can't figure this out. I give myself like five minutes and then I need a break or I have to call support or something because it really just makes me feel like the dumbest person and I'm like, I have a master's degree. I have run a business. I know what I'm doing in life. I know how to do a lot of things, but like I cannot figure this out and I have to then confront myself with that feeling, which it's not just about feeling stupid. It's about what it means if I'm stupid. Can I Does that affirm that I can't actually trust myself? Am I having to confront that this is a problem that I can't solve when my whole ego structure is built around being able to solve problems? That's how I help myself feel safe. So if I come to a problem that I can't solve, then I have to come to terms with what if I'm not really safe? What if I can't really trust myself? And that's terrifying, obviously, right? That push and pull of sixes, of I saw a meme recently that I shared on my personal Instagram, and it was like, My two rules. Don't tell me what to do. Please help me.

Steph Barron Hall: 45:39

Oh my god.

Kristi Rowles: 45:41

That's the truest...

Steph Barron Hall: 45:42

week. That's hilarious.

Kristi Rowles: 45:45

Oh my gosh, we're twins. Yeah, I was like, that's the truest shit I've ever read about myself. Don't tell me what to do. Please help me.

Steph Barron Hall: 45:53

me. Well, I think it's a good point too, a good call out, and it's something I've been learning about sixes recently of the fear of feeling fear, like people assume. That sixes are always feeling fear, but I've met a few sixes, like quite a few actually, who are like, I guess I didn't think of it as fear.

Kristi Rowles: 46:14

Yeah, especially men. Just socially, I think, yeah, they're wired to call it other things.

Steph Barron Hall: 46:21

Yeah. That's such a good point. What about type sevens? Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 46:29

mentioned something earlier, and I don't remember if this is before we hit record or not, but how many sevens are like, every time you talk to them, they have a new business? So it is sometimes like the not fun part to sevens is the discipline of like really sticking something through and figuring out a way to make the business that you're investing in sustainable, right? So sometimes. I'm always talking to people like what really matters to you? Are you working because you love the work? Are you working because you want the freedom? Like, how much do you want to work versus how free do you want to be? The, being strategic about where they invest and what yeses they say. Cause, the, I heard it somewhere once and it's always stuck with me. But every yes you give is a no to something else. Are you really, is this a hell yes? Or is this oh yeah, that sounds fun, right? And is this yes aligning with your goals of whatever they may be? Or is this a yes just because it's new, it's different, it like, it would be a pleasant time? So just being a little bit more strategic. One thing I heard years ago, it might have been on a TED Talk a CEO was saying like, a good business leader never has to say no to a bad idea. Meaning that they are surrounded in their own brain and in the people in their circles with great ideas. And part of being an effective business owner is being able to choose the best ideas, which means saying no to good ideas, because they're not the one that's actually going to lead them to the results that they want. Whether that's more revenue, more freedom, whatever the thing is. So being strategic about that and less, Reactive or impulsive is super important for sevens.

Steph Barron Hall: 48:20

Yeah. I think it's like definitely part of the whole and I think it's really hard to say no to a lot of people who have a real passion of gluttony, of just wanting to do a little bit of everything and genuinely, it's really hard when everything is good,

Kristi Rowles: 48:31

Yes.

Steph Barron Hall: 48:32

could be good, everything has potential, it's very difficult to say no, and I also think that I see a lot of social sevens in particular in coaching, just in helping roles in general, because they want to alleviate pain

Kristi Rowles: 48:46

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 48:46

but then I think something really sneaky that can it.

Kristi Rowles: 48:54

Totally. Yes. Especially social sevens. Because they have that tension more than a self press or a sexual seven of I'm here for people. I'm here for me. I'm here for people. I'm here for me. And it's that is... Almost, in some ways, more draining than if there was just that one directed focus.

Steph Barron Hall: 49:16

Yeah. Yeah. For

Kristi Rowles: 49:18

Yeah. One other thought that I have with stuff is I always use this example. It's like Nike has been selling shoes for 50 years. It's like you can pivot in your business to sell different kinds of shoes or even sell some apparel. But you don't have to totally change your business model every year because you're bored. Like, how can you? What? What things can you automate, put on autopilot, do for you, so that you can move on to a new fun project, but not sacrificing what you've built previously. So I see that come up sometimes with, actually, sometimes with fours and sevens, both, where it's okay, I'm over this thing. I just want to go to the next thing, but The business person in me is Oh my God, we could keep monetizing that we could keep utilizing that to expand your services and help more people in but sometimes that's just like really dull. So can you delegate or hire someone out to do the things that you're just over so that you can move on?

Steph Barron Hall: 50:15

YeAh.

Kristi Rowles: 50:15

But yeah, and also not trying to force yourself to do something forever either. There's a wisdom. For sevens of like you don't have to keep doing things you absolutely hate like that's not Wisdom that's not like healthy for you evolution for your sevenness But it's also not healthy to switch things every week or every month So just like slowing down that process and really assessing getting in touch with yourself. What feels good What's reactive? What's impulsive? What am I like running from avoiding?

Steph Barron Hall: 50:45

Yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 50:46

And what can I maintain?

Steph Barron Hall: 50:47

That's good insight. Okay. Tell us about eights.

Kristi Rowles: 50:51

Yes, oh my gosh. Okay, so eights, obviously, go get them. Very go get them types. They are very driven, very clear they just have clarity on what they want and how they're going to get there. Sometimes that is complicated when you're working with people because people Even if it feels this way are not obstacles, or they are not like pawns to use to get where you want. And that would be true for anybody or anyone who is like hard set on a goal. So I definitely want to clarify that that's not just for AIDS or all of their kind of mindset. One of the things I see coming up with AIDS is the idea is go big or go bigger. Like the phrase, go big or go home. It's with AIDS it's go big or go bigger. And sometimes there is a lack of appreciation for the monotonous tasks or the ones that like aren't going to have that much impact. The other things I see with eights and sevens to a degree is like doing a lot of stuff, but the depth not really being there. So it's I'm going to do a whole bunch of things or have a whole bunch of offers. I'm going to overload my plate. I'm going to... Create a situation where I basically burn out, because I have all this energy, all this intensity, and I'm like, build this dream. And then, I like, before I know it, I'm like, face in a wall holy crap, what just happened? I'm like, dead tired. And, I haven't been connected to myself, because I've been so going, and now I realize that I'm not actually aligned with my life, so it like, creates this, sometimes like a crisis mode of who really am I and what am I doing and all of that. Just again, the slowing, like our culture, regardless for all the types, is so doing focused and it's so achievement focused and we're not ever rewarded growing up for slowing down and being connected to our heart. Asking ourselves what we need. That skill goes against everything that we're really like socialized to be like. We have to be really intentional to create space for that. If we want to be healthy, sustainable business owners.

Steph Barron Hall: 52:55

Yeah, totally. I think it's interesting. I've never seen from Ates that I've worked with that they, that there's like that sense of shallowness,

Kristi Rowles: 53:06

Oh yeah?

Steph Barron Hall: 53:07

but I've certainly seen the aspects of pushing themselves way too hard. bEcause they care so much about making such a big impact.

Kristi Rowles: 53:16

For sure. Yeah, I think that is sometimes, I don't know if I would use the word shallow, plus I feel like that leaves a gross taste in my mouth, so I apologize, aides. I do not think you're shallow, I think you're really deep, beautiful people, and don't tell the other types, but you're one of my favorites. But, I think that it's like, because there isn't the pressure to like make things so perfect, or Or to like, spend forever working on a project. A's can sometimes be like, I had this idea, I did it, that'll do, on to the next. So that's more it's not like an intentional, I'm, you know what I'm saying? It's more just

Steph Barron Hall: 53:54

I was talking with my friend Jackie Acri about this because she was in my course and she's it just seems so polished.

Kristi Rowles: 54:00

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 54:01

She's I don't have, I don't have the patience for that.

Kristi Rowles: 54:04

Yes, exactly. I was literally just talking to a friend. And she was like, I was like, I need help because you've done podcasts, I've debated on starting a podcast for you. I don't know. We'll see. And and then I was saying, yeah, I was just talking to so and this other person. They were like, yeah, podcasting is so much. And so my type eight friend was like, really? I wonder what she's doing. It's not that much. I just had my iPhone and what, like her iPhone and AirPods or something. And I was like, oh my God. I need that. That's what I need in my life. To be like, you're over complicating, Christy. Just do the damn thing. Just get your phone and record it. Even things like that. It's there's just not as much pressure to be, like, so polished. They just do it and move on.

Steph Barron Hall: 54:50

Yeah, and then you're a three and it drives you nuts because you're like, can you not be doing that all the time? That's a joke though. I love AIDS too.

Kristi Rowles: 54:58

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 54:58

really respect that about them.

Kristi Rowles: 55:00

Yeah. Totally. And just like any type, right? I love every type when they are healthy and doing their work. When any type is not, it's woof. That's unpleasant. Including myself. When I'm in a not a great place, I'm like, oh my god. I'm exhausting myself.

Steph Barron Hall: 55:16

Yeah. But I'm always so inspired by 7s and 8s in particular.

Kristi Rowles: 55:20

Yeah. That's fun. Yeah, I could write a love note to all the types, honestly. There's just things that I think are so admirable and it's oh my gosh. I just want everyone to see how frickin magical they are. Cause they really are. I love humans. Sometimes I don't, but mostly I do. Okay, on to nines. So I see a lot of nines in the coaching industry because again, love people, very others focused nines just from the time they're little generally are known as like great listeners and good friends and they create and hold space for people and all the things. So sometimes obviously the business component creeps up on nines where that's really hard. That's not why any of us got into coaching. We did not get into coaching to figure out a scheduling system or find a payment processing. Boring, and not fun. Like it's not why we're here. So that part can be a huge leap for nine. So sometimes it is what I have found really helpful for a lot of nine coaches and business owners is like chopping tasks down to so minuscule that it's like. So bite sized for those of us who are like, yeah, finish the website, but for a nine to do list, it would be like work on the top paragraph on this web, on this one page of the website sort of thing. Way like smaller chunks that feel more manageable. I think also knowing your work style for those of us who tend to be more intense. For sexual types, I think, is probably part of it too and then our threes, sevens, and nines. We tend to be more like sledgehammer workers, where it's get in, do the thing, move on. Where for nines or some other types, ones too, it's slow chiseling. Let me just slowly work my way there. And so being aware of that process. I also think because the coaching world, especially if you're in the online marketing world, it's so zero to five million followers in five days or like all these cheesy things that, I wake up at 5 a. m. because that's what real business owners do. All this stuff. It's okay, first of all, gross, no thank you. Second of all, you can do whatever you want. And be a business owner. That's literally the point. So I just feel really protective sometimes of nines because of, I think, to having a partner who's a nine and watching him navigate that process of not feeling enough, not feeling like he has the umph or the energy to be an entrepreneur that he needs to be in order to be successful. But watching his way of working is It's actually healing for me in a lot of ways, like it's slowing for me and it's modeling for me a different way of existing and that's really important. So I think I just want nines to not ever be hard on themselves for the way that they work and also knowing that their tendency is to like. Do little or less than little, having a structure and timelines is really supportive. Like time blocking on a calendar, even like a handwritten calendar can be really supportive for nines. So making sure that they're tending to themselves and that when things are unpleasant, just know yeah that's meant, it's not meant to be unpleasant, but like when you are a business owner, there are unpleasant parts. It doesn't mean that you're not cut out for It It just means that this part sucks.

Steph Barron Hall: 58:57

Yeah. sure. Yeah. I

Kristi Rowles: 58:59

So eventually, delegate it.

Steph Barron Hall: 59:01

Yeah, absolutely. And it's also like really tragic to me when nines just think, Oh somebody else is already teaching the Enneagram, um, as a coach. So I can't do it. And I'm like Like you have a specific contribution and like almost this assumption, like I'm the most vanilla of vanilla there ever was. And it's just not true. And I think that we, like everyone has their own unique way of looking at things. And even when you point that out to nines, they're like that doesn't seem as like important as what everything everyone else has to

Kristi Rowles: 59:36

right. Which is a way that their 9 ness is showing up as, in that role of a business owner. And I'm like, hello? You will always feel that. Doesn't make it true. There's things like that for all of us. Hello, you are scared. It doesn't mean you should actually listen to it and not do it. Christy, as a 6 do the thing anyway. 9, do you feel like your voice is important? No one misses you when you leave the room. Do it anyway. Just know that you're going to feel some of those things forever. We all feel those things. Not reacting to them or buying into them. That's the healing work for us. Rather than... Letting those things take charge. I also think sometimes the hard thing with nines, with marketing and branding, or knowing their brand identity, so to speak, is nines have sometimes decades of not having space to find themselves. hoW do you then market or be yourself when you don't know yourself? Being sure not to skip over that process for nines is so important. Get in your own coaching work. Do your own therapy work. Invest in yourself. It will make everything easier when it comes to having a business.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:52

yeah.

Kristi Rowles: 1:00:52

Easier said than done.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:54

Yeah, of course. I mean, all of these are for all of us, right? You know. but it's important. Yeah. Great. thank you for giving us that rundown. I think it's so helpful and really useful for people listening, especially if they're interested in becoming some sort of a coach or Enneagram coach. So you are opening Enneagram University this week. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Kristi Rowles: 1:01:16

Yeah. So doors open. We almost never do sales. And the reason is our program is really legit. We have a lot of amazing professors. We have great student experiences, lots of great testimonials, and we just really believe in the work that we do. We also price really fairly in the industry. That said, one of our pillars is about increasing accessibility and inclusion. And sometimes no matter how so we have different things built in. Like we launched scholarships last year, which we're really proud of. We have payment plan options at all, everything that we offer has payment plan options. And then we also do a Black Friday sale. So it's just a different opportunity for people to get in and save some money on investing in their education. The Black Friday sale also applies to all the payment plans as well. So a lot of different opportunities this week. To save and to get in and get started.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:02:08

Awesome. Okay. I'm going to link everything up in the show notes. So that people can check it out. Get into Enneagram University and become an Enneagram coach.

Kristi Rowles: 1:02:19

Yeah. Totally. I would just say to anyone too there's a million things that you can do if you want to test it out, right? Steph and I, we've known each other for years she knows me and trusts me, but I'm still a stranger to most of you. If you want to book a console with me, it's totally free. I swear it's not weird and salesy. I'm not going to hunt you down afterward. It genuinely is let's decide if this makes sense for you. It's not a win for us. If we enroll people that aren't really a fit for EU, so we want it to be a win for everybody. So you can book a free consult. We also have a free download of the course where you can see three lessons, how we teach some of that. So you can get a real robust idea of what you'd be signing up for. We also have a seven day money back guarantee. If you get in and you're like, this is trash, never had anybody do that, but. It provides security that feels good to me as a six. And so rock on, that's there as well. So yeah, definitely check it out. Our community is robust. We have students all over the world doing all sorts of things from, I mentioned earlier, some of them working with authors, some working with executive teams, some working with couples on the brink of separation or divorce. There's just a billion opportunities for you to integrate it in a way that feels good to you. So yeah, come check us out. It's a great program. Our professors are awesome. A lot of you guys might know some of them, so you can see all their faces on the main page of EU, but we've got a great team and would love to have anybody who wants to get certified and do that from a mental health based approach, a human centered approach, an inclusive approach, and fun, a fun human based yeah, foundation.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:03:51

Awesome. Okay. I will make sure everyone knows where to find that. Thanks so much for joining me today, Christy.

Kristi Rowles: 1:03:57

Thanks for having me, friend.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:04:01

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify