What to Do When Holidays are Hard with Jacqui Acree

Jacqui Acree: 1:30

it can actually be fun ish, and it's okay if it's not 100 percent fun. Like, more than one thing can be true. So, you can feel, uh, sad, disappointed, frustrated, anxious, stressed, overwhelmed. All of those feelings. You can feel some of that. It's gonna be there. So, number one, expect it. Right? Like, expect it to be there so that we're not surprised by it. I think sometimes... The picture we have in our mind, and then the reality we experience when those don't match, that can trigger a whole avalanche of feelings. So expect that there's going to be the highs and the lows and everything in between, and you know, allow yourself to hopefully enjoy some of those highs. And... Be curious about the lows. Like, there's always information with emotions.

Samson Q2U Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)-1: 2:35

Hello and welcome to any Graham in real life podcast, where we explore how to apply our Enneagram knowledge in our daily lives. I'm your host, Steph Baron hall. And today I'm joined again by my friend, Jackie acre. She's been on the podcast before, but I wanted Jackie to come back and talk with me. Around the holidays in particular, because every year she offers this short program called happiest holidays. In which she talks about how for a lot of us, there's all this pressure to feel happy or to feel joyful or to feel celebratory around the holidays. And there is a lot of that joy and celebration. And there can also be a lot of hard things, whether it's frustration with family members or just busy-ness and chaos and all those sorts of things. And so I thought it would be really useful for her to come back and talk about why that is like, why do we feel this way? What's going on with that. What can we do about it? So on today's episode, we've actually tackled. These questions, like why do we feel this way? Just to help you not feel so alone with it in Jackie's work. She talks a lot about the both. And so we can feel both the stress and the frustration. And, and the grief, I think there is a lot of grief around the holidays, um, and we can also feel the joy and the celebration. And, you know, the magic of seeing. Holidays through your kid's eyes for the first time, things like that. I just think that those things can co-exist. And so I love Jackie's perspective. On this topic. So as a certified. Advanced EFT tapping practitioner. Jackie acre works with overstimulated high-achieving women to turn down the dial on your stress response so that you can actually enjoy the good already in your life and maybe let in even more. And so in her work, she's using this EFT tapping, which again, I talk about it in the episode, We explain a little bit more about what EFT tapping is, but it's something that I've found incredibly useful. And I'll be honest if I didn't try it first, I would have thought that's just silly. Like there's no way that could work. But I've just found it so useful for myself. So I've done a lot of Jackie's programs over the past couple of years, um, and talked about like gold trauma summer camp. That was a fun one this year that I participated in, and I think that all of these things are really helpful for me to feel. More, centered and to refocus and to calm my nervous system and those sorts of things in the midst of seasons that are really chaotic. And the last quarter of the year is always that way for me. In this episode today, you'll hear a little bit more about tapping overall, but you're also going to hear us talk about some really simple, we're calling them micro strategies or micro tools that you can use. Whether you're preparing for the holidays and you're like, okay. What are some things that I can do to just have a good maintenance level of We're calling itself maintenance, you know, like a good operating level. and then imagine yourself, you're sitting at the Thanksgiving dinner table and things feel chaotic, and you're feeling stressed. You're feeling out of sorts. What are some things you can do in that moment while you're still sitting at the table and then. Okay. You know, you're at the holiday gathering and again, feeling chaotic, feeling out of sorts and you go and take a break. And Jackie even gave us a little script for, how to like validate or affirm ourselves in those moments. When we go take a break and take a breather. So. I compiled all of these things into these different lists and I put them together for you so that you can pin them or something like that. And come back to them. They're all there'll be on my blog. So nine types.co/blog and screenshot them, or save the link or something like that. Whatever works best for you, but you will find those little micro tools there. So I think you'll get a lot out of this episode. And if you want to join happiest holidays this year, I likely will be joining as well. So I'll probably be there. she's doing a black Friday sale, so it's$35 USD. And you can also find that in the show notes. So that will be at nine types.co/happyish-holidays. Again, link will be in the show notes, but I've just found this topic to be really enlightening. And again, I want us to remember it's okay. Feel, um, ways that are not reflected in the Christmas commercials and the holiday movies and all those sorts of things. We can be both joy filled and sad and that's okay. All of those things are welcome here. So, whether you're struggling with the mental load of everything that's expected over the holidays, or you're just feeling really burned out, or you're feeling a lot of pressure or you're feeling sad, or you're feeling really excited and you want to make everything amazing and magical for your kids. Um, over the holiday season, I hope you really enjoy this episode and this conversation with Jackie Avery.

Samson Q2U Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)-2: 7:12

And even if you're not somebody who typically checks out the show notes, I highly recommend it on this episode because I'm going to share the picture of me from seventh grade that I mentioned in the episode, as well as the funny little things, Jackie and I sent back and forth to each other, um, that we discussed at the very end of the episode. So highly recommend checking that out. I hope that you get a good laugh. Again, that'll be on my blog. Um, nine types.co/blog, and just click on the one that says Jackie Avery.

Steph Barron Hall: 7:42

Well, Jackie Acree, welcome back to the podcast.

Jacqui Acree: 7:45

Thank you. I'm so excited to come back and have another chat with you.

Steph Barron Hall: 7:50

Yeah. I'm so glad we were able to make this work even so last minute, because, you know, I just think about the holidays and over the weekend, I was in a couple of different meetings with people, different group sessions, like group coaching and things. And everyone is already like, Oh, the holidays,

Jacqui Acree: 8:08

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 8:10

And it made me think of you and your work because I took your happyish holidays program last year and I was like, Oh, this is so helpful. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Jacqui Acree: 8:20

No, in fact, I think it's unusual to not feel that way. I think there's definitely a spectrum of. hatred for the holidays Or loathing, you know, there is certainly there's I have a really close friend who Is all the way off the like the ledge of the holidays. She loathes everything about the holidays I was just with her actually last week and we were chatting about it. I'm like, what is it? And she's like literally everything. She doesn't like anything about it. I am not that far, but like we already, okay, so today that we're recording this, depending on when people are listening, but our recording is November. What day is today, Steph? The 20th, correct? Great. So November 20th, 2023. We, uh, I hope people will still keep listening, but we already have our tree up. It's a little early, but just the twinkle lights. We have rules. You just have the twinkle lights. Now we'll put on some decorations later, uh, because it makes me happy. It brings me a little bit of, uh, just like a tiny little amount of joy to get up in the darkness. Um, and like sit there with a little bit of coffee or tea in the morning. So I certainly don't hate the holidays themselves, but there is a lot that goes with the holidays that makes them actually quite. Difficult. And so I think most people that I talk to anyway seem to have at least some amount of tension that they experience, like internal tension or conflict with the holiday experience. So you know, you're certainly not alone. Not alone at all.

Steph Barron Hall: 10:00

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, well, for one, I have to say, I love that you have your tree up. I'm certain you're not alone. In fact, I've been to other homes recently that have, Christmas trees already. Um, but I, Also was thinking about this recently because last year we did not put up any lights on our house at all. And this year I was like, we have to do it early because it feels like such a chore to do it. And then three weeks later you have to take it all down, and I want to enjoy it. I love, I love, driving around the neighborhood and seeing all the lights and everything. And I love so much about the holidays and yet there can always be this other side of it that you don't see in like the happy, like holiday movies and whatnot.

Jacqui Acree: 10:46

no. No. They're not in the Hallmark movies. That's for sure. Those feelings. I think you really nailed one piece of it though, just in what you said a moment ago is you said it's a lot of work. And I think that we underestimate just how much work, extra work the holidays are. And it's not just the physical labor of putting up the lights. It's the invisible labor, the mental labor, and the emotional labor that goes into the holiday season as well. And it's a lot. So we, we, but you just stack it on to what's already a lot. You and I were talking just briefly before, um, you hit record and you know, we're talking about Q four and for a lot of people, Q four is also a lot. So whether you're a business owner or even a consumer, like as a consumer, Q four is a lot So it's, and then stack onto that, you know. multiple family gatherings, which come with their own special flavor of stress. And then the, like you said, all the extra workload of special meals and decorating and gift buying, um, obligatory gifts. Like it just, the list doesn't end and we're already quite tired, but paste a smile on your face. and show up with that special homemade casserole because here we are, whether we like it or not, it's the holidays. Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 12:16

yeah. And I think that, I mean, I feel like I wanted to talk with you about this because it is that thing of, of not always having an outlet for people, like that people don't always feel like it's okay to say these things, like it's okay to, to voice the frustration or even like sadness or, or any of the feelings that aren't like Christmas spirit or, Thanksgiving or whatever.

Jacqui Acree: 12:44

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's, that's actually one of the, the, one of the three components of self compassion there's isolation and then, um, common humanity. And so common humanity, which I didn't really understand what that term was very, very first time I read, uh, read that, which was years ago in Kristen Neff's book. Just called self compassion. So anyone can find that it's an excellent book. She also has a great little online quiz test. Um, I hate to call it a test, but I feel like quiz doesn't quite do it enough credit, but she has this little inventory you can take to test your own self compassion levels. And I found that. So helpful again, years ago when I first took it, it blew my mind because I had no idea how low I was on some of those, um, in some of those different pieces of self compassion. And one of them that I really struggled with was common humanity. Like I said, I didn't even know what that meant. I was like, common humanity, what does that mean? So. It, it just means, um, you're not alone, like it just means you're not the only one. And I think we have a highly individualistic culture, which is very challenging in a lot of ways. But one time that really shows up is at the holidays, you know, you look at everyone else and it feels like, what's wrong with me? Why do I feel this way? Why is my family like this? Why are my kids like this? Um, why is my bank account like this? And not in a way that's like having a little pity party, truly in a way that feels isolating. It feels lonely. Um, and then we start asking the question like, well, what's wrong with me or what's wrong with us? And really one of the components of self compassion is common humanity, knowing you're not alone. Um, it's not just you. And there's certainly variance in, you know, the intensity of how we feel and what the different feelings are. But I would say, like, all vibes are welcome. Like, you get to experience all of it. And when I say you get to, lucky us! But that is part of being human. I mean, all of those emotions are part of the experience. And we can't bypass them or numb them without pretty serious consequences. So, learning how to... Ride that emotional roller coaster without being controlled by it, like, so that it's a fun ride instead of like one of those, like, I do not like roller coasters. So it's a terrible example, because if I get on a roller coaster, I'm like, white knuckling it, eyes are closed, like, I wouldn't even get on. I just, as an Enneagram 8, I'm 100 percent no. And when I say no, like, we always laugh about all those memes, right? Isn't it an 8 that's like, I can't even tell myself what to do? Like, don't like telling me to do something because then I definitely won't do it. Um, anyway, so a roller coaster is maybe not the best example, but it, it seems to help us connect with what it feels like through the holidays, the ups and the downs. So how do we ride that so that it's as fun as possible? And I say that with Absolute sincerity. Like, it can actually be fun ish, and it's okay if it's not 100 percent fun. Like, more than one thing can be true. So, you can feel, uh, sad, disappointed, frustrated, anxious, stressed, overwhelmed. All of those feelings. You can feel some of that. It's gonna be there. So, number one, expect it. Right? Like, expect it to be there so that we're not surprised by it. I think sometimes... The picture we have in our mind, and then the reality we experience when those don't match, that can trigger a whole avalanche of feelings. So expect that there's going to be the highs and the lows and everything in between, and you know, allow yourself to hopefully enjoy some of those highs. And... Be curious about the lows. Like, there's always information with emotions. And sometimes just listening for a moment, allowing it to be there, and trusting it to move through once it's delivered its message. You don't have to do what the feeling is saying. You can still make your own decision in a regulated way. But first listening. It's a really valuable source of information.

Steph Barron Hall: 17:26

Yeah, and I think that's such useful information to even kind of chew on. I think for a lot of us who might approach emotions, this is how I often approach it. If I'm not really paying attention, it's like I got to get rid of this. Let me now analyze this. Let me break it down so I can figure out where I can get rid of this. Like, what do I need to change or fix to get rid of this feeling right now? Um, and just like making more space for it. Like you do through your work. It's not always the comfortable way to do it, but there's something about it that does help me feel different. Um, because, but the aim is not to feel different, right? The aim is just to be like a little bit lighter about it.

Jacqui Acree: 18:12

Yeah, I guess that's fair to say, like the aim isn't to change it because when we go, when we approach it with the intention to change it, I think right there you're going to hit some resistance, right? However, I think it's also fair to say that most of us go into it wanting to change it.

Steph Barron Hall: 18:31

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 18:32

And that's okay too, like allowing that to be there, that part to like want to change it, it's okay. I mean. I want to change it. When I feel something really intensely, I would like to change it, please, like, immediately now. So, but I think once we build that relationship with our emotions, with ourselves, and we get experience in allowing it to change at its own pace, when you experience that and you get practice with it, it builds the trust that it will change. So you, you don't have to feel like you got to force it so much, or like you get anxious. Like when, like when? Like now? How about now? How about now? Is it changing now? What about now? Um, it just, you allow it to change on its own and it, it, it's a lot more gracious of an experience to do it that way, but it does take practice because most of us were not taught how to do this. So I'm 46 right now, and at 46, I had no idea. Like at all how to do that work. Um, you also said something else that I thought was really illuminating. Oh, you talked about, um, like wanting to analyze it. And so you're talking about thinking like, and I used to walk around like a disembodied head, so I'd have my feelings, but I was cut off from them. Like, no, thank you. Those are unwelcome here and I would have to understand why I was having the feeling so I could analyze it and then get rid of it. So it's basically exactly what you're saying. And I think a lot of us can relate to that. Um, super common approach, but Maybe not the best place to start. We can still learn from our emotions. We can still, like, connect the dots and understand maybe why or where it's coming from. But sometimes you just feel the way you feel. Oh my. I think Juno can hear Canon. Is that Canon in the background?

Steph Barron Hall: 20:26

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 20:27

That's really cute. Our dogs want to get in on the podcast.

Steph Barron Hall: 20:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 20:31

Anyways, so, yeah, the disembodied head thing. I think it's really, really common. Um, however, I mean, it's adaptive at a time. Usually we've learned a pattern like that for a good reason. So, first of all, again, like, self compassion, understanding this comes from a useful place, and the intentions are really good, but maybe now is a time to learn a new way of, of working with these emotions instead of cutting off from them or trying to analyze them. Um, what was once adaptive can become maladaptive later in life.

Steph Barron Hall: 21:09

Yeah. Absolutely. It's like trying to, you know, on a footie pajamas that were for a kid's size.

Jacqui Acree: 21:19

Yeah, but we still keep trying to squeeze ourselves into them, right?

Steph Barron Hall: 21:22

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 21:23

Yeah.

Steph Barron Hall: 21:24

I'm curious if you can talk a little bit more about what it's been like for you to be a parent. I mean, I, I hear from so many parents who feel all of this pressure around the holidays. Um, and so you've obviously talked a lot about this concept of like all of the pressure and all the feelings and the high highs, the low lows all around the holidays. And what has it been like for you? Like, where were you a few years ago versus now?

Jacqui Acree: 21:51

Hmm. I am someone who's always had really high expectations. Like, very high. So I'm really familiar with the feeling of disappointment. Because, Unmet expectations is where disappointment comes from. And there are stealth expectations, so the expectations that are sneaky little suckers and you're not even aware of them. And then there are more obvious expectations that are maybe communicated stealth expectations. Um, those have been really tricky for me throughout my life because they seemed obvious to me, but I wasn't aware of them and therefore wasn't communicating them to anyone else. And then you end up just feeling like, for example, maybe a gift, like, um, I'm a very particular person who has. I didn't even know the word particular would really, like, to me, it's, it just is how, I just like it how I like it. And it was a friend of mine who said, Oh, you're very particular. And he didn't mean it in a negative way, but it caused me to like pause for a moment. I remember that was probably 15 years ago, but the first time I ever heard someone actually articulate to me, like you're very particular. And I just always really known myself well, I know what I like, I know what I want. And as an Enneagram 8, I have no problem communicating that, but I think, again, what it feels obvious to me, so I think maybe I'm communicating it, but I don't know if it's always translated. And then I end up feeling disappointed. So, Happy ish Holidays is, it makes room for more.

Steph Barron Hall: 23:33

Mm.

Jacqui Acree: 23:34

Like, there's just room for more. So, So, more grace when I want what I want, but maybe that's not what ends up happening. More room for people to people, like people are gonna people, you know? So, Your, I don't know, Aunt Bertha is going to be just like Aunt Bertha usually is, and expecting that is really helpful. Instead, I tended to expect like the best outcome, like what I wanted to happen is what I expected to happen. And again, I, I mean, I can only speak to this as an age, so I don't know if this is relatable for everyone, but I also have this belief that I can like make things happen the way I want them to happen. And it doesn't work like that. That's a lot of force. I, I'm sure I told this story in the very first episode that you and I ever recorded, did I tell the story about the pottery and the bleeding hands? I'm sure I did. Right. So for anyone listening, you can go back and find that episode. But, you know, it's just this, like, very, like, I am going to make it happen like this kind of energy. So a lot of, um. Perfectionism probably, I guess, is probably where it would come down to, but like perfect isn't something that I related to for a really long time. When people would say like I'm a perfectionist, I'd be, because I'm quite comfortable with being scrappy, like in business, for example, I can put work out there and if it's not perfect, that's okay, because I'd rather do something than get stuck not doing it. So I didn't really relate to the whole perfect idea. However, emotional perfectionism. That was big for me.

Steph Barron Hall: 25:20

Mm.

Jacqui Acree: 25:21

thinking that you could hack being human and figure out how to perfect those emotions so that you experience only the best. Emotions, that was really an angle that I tried for quite a while, and it just doesn't work that way. Um, controlling other people clearly doesn't work. We can check that right off the list. And I also think that there is some, the idea of like controlling yourself, just the only person you can control is you. Sometimes I'm curious about that. I'm like, really, how's that working for everyone?

Steph Barron Hall: 26:00

Mm

Jacqui Acree: 26:01

Because I often don't feel like I can control myself, like,

Steph Barron Hall: 26:03

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 26:04

so it just sets you up for feeling like a personal failure. And I'm not saying that we can't, again, like. Move the needle in that direction, but I think we need so much more grace and compassion for The experience of being a human in a really messy world and all that that entails So that's what happy ish means to me Like I love the idea of happy holidays or marry this like it sounds great But in my experience, it feels like pressure

Steph Barron Hall: 26:36

Mm.

Jacqui Acree: 26:37

this pressure to keep that 10 of happiness at all times. And then what do you do when your kids are literally sitting in a mess of wrapping paper? And say, I'm bored, you know, or, um, you know, I don't, I really don't like buying obligatory gifts. Like the gifts you feel like you have to buy, I really don't like doing that. So the pressure, like, how do you manage, uh, the pressure to do that? And it's very neat and tidy to say, well, just don't do it. And again, like, you know, stuff like I'm a huge fan of not doing something I don't want to do, but I don't think that that's always realistic when we are living with other people.

Steph Barron Hall: 27:21

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 27:22

You know, like what I want to do and what my family wants to do for our own version of like, our ideal holiday might be very different. So how do we not abandon ourselves, but also make room for what someone else might want or what makes them happier?

Steph Barron Hall: 27:40

Yeah. Well, and I can also think of a lot of... Different types and a lot of different approaches to that, like even hearing from friends, feeling pressure to make it like the perfect holiday experience for their kids. Because the only time they're gonna have Christmas when they're four, you know, and it's like every year can be that sense of expectation and pressure. And every kid has different school events, and then there's all these different everythings.

Jacqui Acree: 28:14

There's a lot in the school calendar at, in December itself, like the whole month. It's a lot. Yeah. Um, you know, I think I, I did, I created a tapping session last year for my happiest holidays series that was called, let me think for a moment. I think it was, I give myself permission to say yes and then dot, dot, dot, and no. And I love that session because it's like, okay, where's the permission to say, You know, we've been told like say yes to what lights you up, say yes to, um, like what you want and then say no to anything that doesn't spark joy. And that's just not reality. That's not my reality. Um, it can also be a very privileged place to come from. So you know, we don't always have the freedom. Does just say whatever yes and no we prefer. So finding, um, space to find maybe micro yeses micro nos. I find the Concept of a micro things super helpful. It's like, where can I find a micro? Yes, or a micro? No, just that little tiny bit of space and it really soothes the nervous system to give yourself a choice If you do have access to one and again, I want to be really sensitive to any privilege there Because sometimes choice is a really huge part of privilege But being aware of that like where can we find that micro? Yes, where is that little bit of space? And the nervous system really loves choice. So when you give yourself a little bit of choice, it can, that alone can calm you down just a little bit. It's like just soothe yourself with some options. Um, that's a, that's a way to maybe identify if you are feeling dysregulated. Sometimes we don't even know when we are feeling that way. Notice when you go into that black and white brain, like the part of your brain that's like, I have no, no choice. They have no option here. And again, with sensitivity, like maybe you really legit don't, but what if, is there any choice here? Like where might there be a micro choice? And so, of course, I would marry that with tapping because when you are physically tapping on those acupoints on your body, you are sending a nearly instantaneous calming signal to the amygdala, which is that part of your brain that's like, No, there is no choice here. It's the fear center. So if you can kind of turn down the dial on that a little bit, that's what gives you the space or that little bit of a pause to start to have access to the part of your brain that's like, okay, where's the perspective here? Where is the choice?

Steph Barron Hall: 31:00

Yeah. Can you explain that a little bit more? Like, what is tapping? And, like, what are the acupoints?

Jacqui Acree: 31:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had someone, I was chatting with someone the other day, and they were so frank about it, which, and it made, we had a really good laugh. She said, it sounds really hokey, and I hadn't heard the word hokey for so long that we just erupted in giggles, but it's true. I, you know that I'm kind of, I call myself wooskeptical, so I'm not into a lot of woo. If someone else is, that's great, it just doesn't work for me very well. I like to understand things a bit more and like get into the science y stuff. So, the actual term is emotional freedom techniques, which is a big mouthful, so it's more commonly called EFT, or even more commonly just casually referred to as tapping, and the reason it's called that, that's the part that sounds hokey, tapping, it's like, what is that? But it's called that because you are literally tapping on Acupoints on the body. So there are these points that if anyone has done acupuncture or acupressure there are these points on the body and when we stimulate those we know that it leads to a certain kind of response. So in the work I do, I do not touch anyone else's body. In fact, I actually do all of my sessions virtually. So all of my stuff is either, um, prerecorded or I'm working with somebody online and we've been together. You and I have done that. So, um, I love that because it gives me the opportunity to work all over the world instead of just in the little community that I'm in. But somebody else's I've had that question a lot. Well, do you touch people's bodies? No, I do not touch people's bodies you tap on your own body and but I guide you through those points and so it helps to Soothe the nervous system. It will regulate your nervous system. It calms the amygdala down and will disrupt Old patterns of, you know, like ruts, if you think of ruts, when you drive in ruts, and they just get deeper and deeper, it helps you to disrupt those ruts that you're kind of in, in your thought patterns and your behavior patterns, your emotional patterns, it disrupts that so that you now can make a more conscious choice. Do you want to continue going down that path, or maybe you want to hop out and create a new one? Um, so what we were saying earlier, it's like, sometimes what was adaptive at a time. Becomes maladaptive later. Perfectionism is a great one. Perfectionism can be super healthy actually, depending on how you're looking at it, and there's a great book on that. You do show notes. So maybe we can pop that into the show notes. Hey, it's the um, Let me think for a moment. Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control. Is the name of the book, but I have to think of the author, we'll find it and put it in there, but I love her perspective on perfectionism because she talks about both healthy, um, adaptive perfectionism and maladaptive perfectionism. So permission to actually, instead of like, I'm a recovering perfectionist, it's like, well, you know what, actually seeing the gap between reality and ideal can be a really powerful. Gift. Right? So, anyways, perfectionism in a maladaptive way though, like sometimes we learn as children, um, to be like, let's just use good girl as an example. You learn how to be the good girl. And then later in life, as an adult, that pattern continues to repeat because it is a pattern and it was adaptive at a time, but as an adult now it's like, this isn't really working for me anymore. So how do we change those patterns? And when you work with the body as well as with your mind, you have more on board for that change. You're not just trying to white knuckle, you know, thoughts. You're not doing mindset mastery alone. It's, um, I find it so much more gracious for this experience of being human because you're allowed, the first thing that you do in tapping is you get to acknowledge the truth of whatever you're feeling now. Whatever you're thinking now. It's okay to say it. So that was as As somebody who feels my emotions very, very intensely and often felt like they were wrong. Like I should think or feel something different, but that's not how I was thinking or feeling. So I learned to like bypass it or numb it for the longest time. Maladaptive later in life. That just doesn't work for very long. So I found it very helpful to have a tool that allowed me, like it facilitates So, saying the truth first, acknowledging that so you can hear from it, give it a voice, and then not stay there, but move through it. So what I noticed, and I still do this sometimes, when I really get into Like when I get on a roll in a certain direction, whether emotionally or with a certain thought, like you can really go far and deep with that. And it doesn't help to relieve it. Like I call it mind humping, like ruminating is probably another way. Yeah. Mind

Steph Barron Hall: 36:24

ha.

Jacqui Acree: 36:25

It's super, um, because we used to have a dog when I was younger that, you know, he would, he would do his best to. have a relationship with your leg, but it was extremely unproductive. So that's what it feels like my brain does. It like latches onto something and doesn't want to let it go. But when you use tapping, you're disrupting that attachment. So it's, um, like I said, it creates a little bit of space for something new to come in. It's like your toddler self versus this regulated adult self. So like, how I know, who I know I can be is able to come on board. You and I have talked about parts of self work quite a few times. So if you were looking at it from a parts of self perspective, it's like letting that capital S self come into play without shaming or blaming or judging or even suppressing those other parts. But you still get to leave from the selfiest self.

Steph Barron Hall: 37:31

Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I think I would be really suspicious of tapping if I hadn't just tried it before learning about it. Because once I tried it, I was like, Oh my gosh, this works like incredibly well. Like it feels like a miracle cure in a sense. And I was like, I don't understand how it works. And yet sometimes I sit down and I, I'm like, I know. It will help if I just do like a tapping session, 10, 15 minutes, it'll change everything for my day. And I'm so resistant still.

Jacqui Acree: 38:03

Yeah, I know. That's like me with almost everything, like drinking water, going to the bathroom, going to do 10 minutes of yoga. Like, it's, I don't know why Well, I mean, I do kind of know why, but we are, we tend to be resistant to those kinds of things and it's okay. So again, like, first of all, knowing that we're not the only ones, we're not the worst. Um, I saw a reel just the other day by, um, Oh, I know her Instagram handle, but I don't know her. I can't remember her name. The Centered Life Co. She um, works with like a lot of ADHD, neurodivergent. She does super cute reels, super funny, and so practical. I love her stuff. And she was saying like, if you struggle with self care... Like, maybe just call it self maintenance. Like, it's not always fun. Like, we, again, like, it's been so commodified. Like, self care and do all of this for yourself. And, you know, not all of us feel like doing that kind of stuff. I find getting into the shower one of the hardest things I have to do every day. I hate it. I hate showering, but it's part of my day. So self maintenance, I find really helpful to just reframe it like that a little bit, but you're not the only one. I've talked to somebody about that before. Like when I was new to tapping years ago, I was talking about this exact thing and her advice was, well, tap on your resistance to tapping. And I was like, no, thanks. It's just irritated me. Nevermind. However, I will say, so yes, it's normal. First of all, we can normalize the resistance. But normalizing it and then staying there isn't super helpful because it doesn't support that change, right, to actually do the thing. So, um, one of the things I've done to try to support that is certainly make it as easy as possible. So that all you have to do is push play. You don't have to do anything else. Like you don't have to guide yourself through the process. You don't need more than about 10 minutes. Cause like you said, like if I can do it in 10 minutes, I'm super happy. That's my yoga practice. It's a 10 minute thing a day. I hit go on a video. I'm like, good to go. That's it. Um, I cannot seem to make myself do it every single day. I'm like consistently inconsistent, but most days can be good enough like sufficiency instead of like being, um, rigid, right? What if we can allow for some. inconsistent consistency and let that be enough. Um, because I do find like most of the time, if we can remove some friction, it helps people. It helps me. If all I have to do is hit play, I'm good to go. I can, I can get myself to that point. I can hit play. And then if you can take it from there, I'm good to go. So that's what I've tried to do with the happiest holidays series, as well as some of the other stuff that I create, because you're not the only one. And I feel it too. I feel it too. We need that extra support sometimes just to make it a little bit easier for us.

Steph Barron Hall: 40:54

And I think especially with the holidays, we're talking about all these different reasons that they can be hard. And sometimes it's just hard because you feel this pressure to like, you know, get an A plus in making mashed potatoes or something. Like, we have these experiences that, that, we put these really high expectations and then there's all this disappointment as well. And. I think around the holidays, we talk a lot about relational or like family boundaries. And of course, sometimes that can be privilege. Sometimes there, there are those elements to it. I just think in general, we disregard, how everything makes sense in the context. So like,

Jacqui Acree: 41:37

Always.

Steph Barron Hall: 41:39

yeah, in the context of a family relationship, the boundaries are more difficult. But I'm curious if we can talk a little bit about emotional boundaries, because this is a topic that I think. We don't discuss enough. And it's something I think is really important, but I don't, I mean, I have like a hunch as to why we forget about them, but I'm curious if you have any thoughts you can share on those.

Jacqui Acree: 42:04

Well, now I want to hear your hunch, so let's make sure we come back to that. I'd love to hear about your hunch. Well, okay, boundaries at all, are knowing like where I end and where you begin, right? And emotional boundaries are really no different in that way. And we're not, we're not, it's not modeled for us very much. Not very often, again, at least not from the people that I connect with and certainly not for myself. It wasn't modeled for me. Um, you know, I can remember feeling intense pressure to have a certain reaction to opening a gift. Because I knew that the person was expecting a certain kind of reaction and that didn't work very well for me because I am as you see me, like there is a whole lot of expressiveness going on in this space and it was, I always felt like worried or anxious that it was not going to be right, that I was not going to be giving it. An appropriate amount of gratitude and appreciation, but it was tough if you open that gift and it's like, I don't know. I can't even think of a funny joke. There were a lot of real, real ones that were not funny. And so you're, you know, there's that pressure. Anyways, my point is. That, that other person, sometimes what you're picking up from them is like, my emotional experience depends on you and your reactions. And so there's a lot of like enmeshment with that and the emotional, um, where I end and you begin is. It's, it's like creating a little bit of an emotional bubble for yourself so you can have some neutrality when it's not going well with the people that you're in the space with. It's just, I feel like it's really important to acknowledge how tricky that is in family relationships. I think that's the hardest place to do it. And we get into those holiday gatherings and we wonder why we're right back to feeling like a teenager or a kid again. And we just take too much on ourselves, like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I have better emotional boundaries? I listened to Jack and Steph talk about these boundaries and I should just be able to know where I end and they begin, but instead I'm right back in it immediately. We just have to remember, like, these are patterns that have developed over years of relationship. And there's a lot going on unconsciously under the surface. So the biggest thing I really hope people leave this podcast with is knowing like, again, self compassion, be gracious with yourself, like it's, you're going into the trenches. It's the best case scenario might be just leaving without doing more damage to yourself or anyone else. Right? And like, knowing to be gentle, gentle, gentle with yourself is really mission critical at this time of year. Um, the intensity of whatever you feel at any other time of the year, like however you feel at any other time, just dial it up times what? A thousand? That's what you're going to be feeling at the holidays. So I want to hear your hunch. What's your hunch on emotional boundaries?

Steph Barron Hall: 45:32

Here's an example from like just the Enneagram world. So a lot of the time, and we've talked about this before as well, but a lot of the time, let's talk about type eight and nine. so eights and nines are, have actually a lot of similarities, but are polar opposites in kind of the way that they approach like conflict and those types of conversations. And I think a lot of the time. Um, the onus is put on eights to turn it down and like kind of simmer down and not be so intense and not be so bold. Um, and I think, sure, at times that that can be helpful, you know, there can be ways of, of like having a bit of emotional immaturity to say, I'm gonna not have this big gigantic reaction. But also I think that for nines or even let's talk about any other type. I'm not to pick on nines at all, but, I think sometimes other types need to have a sense of, oh, this is my, boundary, my emotional boundary. Like, I am not responsible for their feelings. I don't need to take on their feelings. They're allowed to have their feelings without it impacting me. Recognizing, yes, it does impact me. That doesn't make me bad or wrong, but also I don't have to absorb it all and fix it.

Jacqui Acree: 46:52

yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, really. There's so much nuance there and so, like you said, like, it makes sense in context. Like, that is so much easier for me in a friendship than it is in my parenting because, of course, I want to fix it for my kid, right, but allowing my kids to have their own emotional experience with whatever it is that they're dealing with is really. vital for their own health and growth and for our relationship. And I always say that, like, if people can allow me, I have a really great friend and we've talked about this, um, fairly recently actually, um, like, if I can be allowed to have whatever my emotional reactions are and just get it out and talk it through and do my thing, um, and if she can hold the space for that without trying to fix that. What it communicates to me is trust that she, cause I know I'll be fine. I'm always fine. I figure it out eventually, but I do have to discharge it, right? It has to go somewhere. I know that about myself. So if she can hold that with me, then I feel number one, like, Ooh, I found someone that can help me hold this intensity. What a gift. So build our relationship. But also I feel like she is communicating trust in me that like, I will handle it. Which feels really good and it builds even trust in myself because she's reflecting that to me. Like, you are going to be okay because she's not trying to fix it. That's one of the hugest risks, risks with toxic positivity, which is our tendency to want to try to fix things for people or find a reason why or smooth it over or rush people through their process. So, you know, it's the whole sentiment of like, well, everything happens for a reason or at least that those are two words. I wish we could scrub from our lexicon at least. Like, when did we ever say we wanted to settle for at least? So, example, um, Oh, well, at least you won't have to. I have a friend whose dear dog just died. Um, and it's just, I mean, you know how much I love my own dog and I feel for her so deeply. And can you imagine if I said, well, at least you don't have to walk your dog anymore.

Steph Barron Hall: 49:25

Ugh.

Jacqui Acree: 49:26

to be winter and it's exactly like when you say it so clearly like that you can hear like who? Who would ever say that but we say those kinds of things to each other all the time. It's literally rampant in our culture and It destroys relationships. That's one of the biggest costs that you're paying with something like that It's the intent is to connect in a way, right? Like we're trying to like connect But what we're doing is disconnecting because the other person is like, I, I'm out of here like that. I don't feel safe. Ultimately is what happens. And so emotional boundaries play into that big time. It's like trusting that the other person is going to be able to handle this at their own pace in their own time. They can move through it, whether we're talking about something tiny or something really big, like grief,

Steph Barron Hall: 50:21

Mm hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 50:22

people have their emotional experience and also know where yours ends and where yours starts, right? Like, um, cause you're also allowed to have your experience. So again, another example would be like what I was saying about my kids, cause it is the hardest for me to do with my kids. Right. If they're struggling with whatever, of course, I'm like, Oh, it's so painful. Well, one thing noticing like your own parts coming into play, like for me, my kids are in middle school and high school and oh my goodness, like middle school was like probably, isn't it always the worst time of our lives for a lot of us so bad. I don't have great memories of middle school and it's. It does. It can re trigger like those feelings in you because you remember what it feels like to walk into the lunchroom with your little tray and like nobody makes room for you or um, having, you know, the wrong clothes or trying to like wear makeup for the first time. And my, it looked terrible. Am I, I'm giving you guys all of my own little T traumas, like

Steph Barron Hall: 51:21

Or like, having curly hair. Sorry, but

Jacqui Acree: 51:23

Oh my gosh.

Steph Barron Hall: 51:25

curly hair in middle school and everyone's like, What's wrong with your hair? What is it for so frizzy? You know,

Jacqui Acree: 51:30

Yes. That's a really good example.

Steph Barron Hall: 51:32

not even joking. The other, like a couple years ago, Brandon saw a photo of me when I was in seventh grade. That was in my aunt's house. In my curly hair. And he just died laughing. And I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna disagree. I'm bad.

Jacqui Acree: 51:51

no,

Steph Barron Hall: 51:53

That

Jacqui Acree: 51:53

not going to disagree. However, that's, you know, that's triggering some feelings in me. That's a great example of those stuff because my daughter has curly hair and I had the same experience as you did with curly hair. Like it took me a long time to get to a place where I'm like, no, I like my curly hair. And for her, I like intentionally let her have her own experience with her curly hair, right? Without it being about me. It's her experience, her hair, different person, different time, thank God. And also, lucky her, she has a mom who knows like a little bit about curly hair because I did not. So, but you know, just letting her have her own experience with it and paying very... Loving attention to any part of me that's having my own emotional experience and then dealing with that outside of that relationship. That's an example of emotional boundaries. So it doesn't mean you don't get to have your own human feelings about it or whatever, but go to someone else to deal with that, right? Like, whether you want to go to someone professional, or if you've got a friend you can talk to, or a partner, like there's different people you go to different people. To with different things. Um, and again, I, I, tapping is one tool you can use for that kind of an experience because it's literally right at your own fingertips. And you can think of it as a bit of like a mental and emotional hygiene in a way where a little bit of tapping every day just gives you that little boost of nervous system regulation, a little bit of emotional regulation. It teaches you the skill and the practice of showing up for yourself, listening to yourself, um, tuning into how you're feeling, what's coming up, what might be connected. It really can help connect dots between how you're feeling and either what happened or what's happening. And then it makes sense of it, and instead of festering in it, you can then make a choice so that you are getting the information from your emotions without being instructed by them. Like, emotions are not good drivers. They should not be in the driver's seat. They can be, they can ride, they can get the snacks, you know, but ultimately, um, better to have that selfiest self in the driver's seat. I guess it could be a joy ride sometimes if the emotions are driving, but like,

Steph Barron Hall: 54:23

Right.

Jacqui Acree: 54:24

I'm not sure that that's where we want to go all the time, even that, I mean, joy itself, because, you know, a lot of people would say like, oh, I'd love to feel more joy. Yes, joy is a great emotion to feel. Of course, it's enjoyable overall, but it's one of the most, if not arguably the most vulnerable emotion we can feel.

Steph Barron Hall: 54:40

Mm

Jacqui Acree: 54:41

This isn't last and you know what?

Steph Barron Hall: 54:43

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 54:44

So, you know, you know, it's not going to last. I mean, just wait for it. Like, whatever, there might be a moment of joy in the holidays. And Brene Brown calls it foreboding joy sometimes when you can feel like you're, you experience a moment of joy and then the next thing you experience is the feeling of like, oh no, this is going to get taken away.

Steph Barron Hall: 55:00

hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 55:01

It's hard to stay in it.

Steph Barron Hall: 55:03

Yeah, and I really like that in your work you talk a lot about the both and.

Jacqui Acree: 55:07

Yeah, the both and.

Steph Barron Hall: 55:09

But the both and is really important because, and I think even, you know, back to some of the things I was thinking about our emotional boundaries conversation, not to say that I think we had like a really clear idea of exactly what that looks like, but I love what you said about, um, having your own internal process and kind of showing up for the other person or showing up in a situation like, for example, you, you know, you want to go to a holiday gathering and be present and be with people you love and care about. And. It might be difficult, like for me, I have a really difficult time. If I have unresolved conflict, like if there's been past conflict and it has not been thoroughly worked out. Um, and I have people in my life who don't ever want to broach conflict. And so I have to be aware of like, all right, well, I can show up the way that I can show up. And I feel like in a, in a sense, it's taken a long time for me to get to that where there's that emotional boundary with that.

Jacqui Acree: 56:06

Yeah. I mean, you can absolutely, with that consciousness of being aware, you can even do something like really practical for yourself that, um, might help. Um, and again, you are the authority on what that is for you. That's why I find like you can't prescribe emotional boundaries to someone else. Right. It's like, and it sounds so nebulous, like, well, where do you end and where does the other person begin and let them have their own emotional experience. But then when you're in it. It's way messier than that, but I find, like, for myself, when I do have the awareness of let's say going into an environment where I know it's going to be, um, emotionally challenging, giving myself permission or even freedom, To do something for myself that supports me in that situation. And nobody even needs to know about it sometimes. I mean, some, something might be more obvious. I can think of probably a few examples, but I'm talking about even like the most subtle little thing, like, um, well going to the bathroom and closing the door for a minute and like locking it

Steph Barron Hall: 57:16

Mm hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 57:16

just giving yourself a moment. Um, instead of forcing yourself to be constantly in an environment where you're like, I really do not want to be here. Can you leave for a micro moment? And have that moment with yourself to just say, and have like a dialogue with yourself instead of a monologue, which the monologue is going to sound like, okay, this is how it sounds for me. I don't know how it sounds for everybody else, but it would sound probably for me, someone like, I hate this. I want to get out of here. Or why are they like that? Or I don't know. It would be very like entrenched in like, Intense, we'll call it negativity. I don't have a problem with negativity, so that's fine for me. Um, we could call it distressing or uncomfortable emotions. I don't mind calling them negative, that works for me. But, but I don't look at that as bad. So, um, so in that context, like if I was doing the monologue, that's how it would sound. And that will just amplify or intensify what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking. It's going to create a ton of tension in your body. Your cortisol is going up. You're probably revving up some adrenaline. You're going to have tension and rigidity in your muscles. Like I give myself headaches when I go like that because my shoulders and think about this like your shoulders go up and a little bit forward like you're very clenched. It's a protective posture.

Steph Barron Hall: 58:31

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 58:32

It's a fight or flight protective posture. It's like something's coming, something's trying to attack me, so I must defend and that is unconscious. So can you give yourself a micro moment and then have a conversation or a dialogue again from that selfie of self saying something like, like, I see you, I see how hard this is. I see how, like, what, what, what do you want to witness for yourself? And it's such a gift to be able to do that, even if it's just a little moment. Um, and it might be enough. You could also go outside.

Steph Barron Hall: 59:07

Mm hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 59:08

maybe you could go outside. That's the thing is, I, we don't know. We don't know what each person's individual circumstances are. Um, I know when I was nursing my babies, that was like the best time because I could just go into a dark room and be along with the kid for a minute. And it was like such... A pause to just have some space for me. It wasn't conflict because as you can imagine, conflict wasn't isn't usually my, it's not my problem is that any agreement. Um, I would just make them talk about it stuff. You don't want to talk about as well. But for me, it's mostly overstimulation. I feel overstimulated almost immediately. In, uh, a lot of family type gathering environments. It doesn't even have to be family. Um, my husband's staff party. It's very overstimulating for me, and my body wants, it freaks out. It's like, we gotta get out of here. This is an SOS type situation. So, I've learned how to cope with that. So I can still, this is the part that I was saying earlier about still saying yes and no. Like, where can you say yes and no? So I can say yes to this part of it, and say no to this part. That's the boundary. Yes is also a boundary. It's like, this is what feels good for me.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:28

hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 1:00:29

Right. But then what is, what is my absolute no? Where am I not willing to budge? And, um, and then practice, like just an experiment with it. Like what if each year it's even different? We always are growing and changing. So you might surprise yourself a little bit.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:47

Yeah, so I'm thinking of like different ways, like different like small like, Miniature tools, like one thing I do is I just like tap do like the tapping, but on my collarbone,

Jacqui Acree: 1:00:58

right.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:00:59

um, it's pretty subtle or I'll do, um, I learned a mindfulness technique ages ago, um, where you breathe in, um, and like, basically like drag your thumb up your finger to the end. And when you hit the tip of your finger, that's the top of your breath and then exhale.

Jacqui Acree: 1:01:23

Hmm. I've never heard that one. I like that one

Steph Barron Hall: 1:01:26

It's kind of interesting because all of your fingers are different lengths, right? So you have to pay attention to your breath and like how quickly you're moving your, your, your thumb. So that's kind of an interesting one, even just taking a deep breath or, um, the, uh, what is it called? There's, there's a specific word for this one, but it's like the sigh. It's like two in breaths and then

Jacqui Acree: 1:01:47

Physiological side.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:01:48

Yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 1:01:49

Yeah, that one that one Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one

Steph Barron Hall: 1:01:54

Um,

Jacqui Acree: 1:01:55

tools. I love that I don't I hear what you're saying about the collarbone point. That one feels really obvious to me, although I do have several clients, one, one in particular I'm thinking of, if she's listening to this, I'll, I'll give her a little hello. Um, she'll know, she'll know herself immediately because we talked about that. She has this intuitive, like she just kind of rubs her collarbone point and it's more of a rub and it's always a tell for me, like if we're in a session together, I always know like it's very self soothing. Um, I sometimes will actually play with my hair. Which is a self soothing thing. So if you ever notice yourself doing it, like, maybe it's a self soothing thing, instead of just like a fidget. I mean, isn't a fidget self soothing? Right? But we tend to judge the fidgeting as something bad. When it's intuitive way to bring some soothing some regulation my favorite tool Which is a little bit more than what you're talking about It takes a bit more of a commitment, but going for a walk is there is incredibly regulating for me So if I can do that I will almost always make that choice, but even if it's like 5, 10 minutes and my preference is to go alone. Um, because it gives me a chance to like, just like, if my thing is overstimulation, then bringing the stimulation down, being outside in nature, even if it's cold and dark, where I live in Canada, it tends to get very cold, very dark, but it gives you that, um, bit of bilateral Regulation, that bilateral movement, so the walking is really helpful, the fresh air is really helpful, nature is helpful, and then if I'm alone, it gives me a chance to process myself instead of meeting that other person there to, to process with or having them distract me from like, just wanting to be alone. So, I find that really, really helpful, but that's not micro, that would be more like, let's say medium. Cause you need a few minutes and you have to be able to make an exit to do that, which sometimes isn't worth the hassle. Oh, we'll come with you. No, I'm good. Um, another, I had another one. Let me think for a moment. You said a micro and I had something else pop into my mind. If you have a pet petting your pet or like holding your pet, if you can do that, um, I will notice, like even if I just look at Juno and watch her breathe notice how at rest she is in that moment, that soothes me like it's co-regulation. Then in that moment. you could do that if it's not a pet for you, you could like, is there someone else that anchors you in that way that you're with?

Steph Barron Hall: 1:04:36

yeah.

Jacqui Acree: 1:04:36

Um, holding a warm drink can be very regulating for people or maybe sipping something cold because like, but pay attention, like being in your body is very helpful to turning down the intensity on that. Threat detection that we often get, that switch is flipped, right? Like when we're in family gatherings, um, or maybe big crowds, like I hate small talk, like it can feel very, it's not, it doesn't make sense from a logical perspective. You think about it, you're like, there's no threat here, I'm not in an immediate danger, but that isn't what's happening under the surface unconsciously, and it's not voluntary. Like it's not like you're thinking to yourself, wow, this is a life threatening situation. No, but your body, if it's perceiving that in any way, it's going to start to turn up that. Sympathetic nervous system response, right? So you're going to get like super agitated, feel um, anxiety or stressed, like anxious, overwhelmed and stressed are the words that I hear the most about the holidays. And so rushing, rushing, here's a micro tip. Rushing will feed that. It will feed it. It will intensify that. So, because think about it, like you're running away from the bear. So when your body is moving quickly, and you're already feeling some anxiety or stress, then rushing will feed that. So, intentionally slow down. Just walk slower, drive slower, safely, of course. And please don't drive under the speed limit because that drives us all crazy. But, like, maybe drive the speed limit? No, like, the driving thing is huge. It totally triggers people in the holidays.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:06:35

So then, I think all of those are really useful. And then quick, just like, I love the self maintenance thing, because I... I would not ignore the maintenance needed light on my car dashboard.

Jacqui Acree: 1:06:49

No.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:06:49

But if it was like car care needed, I'd be like, Oh yeah, whatever. It's fine. Cause it seems like an aesthetic choice versus

Jacqui Acree: 1:07:00

a necessity.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:07:01

an operating choice. so I think that, I mean, for me, like I mentioned, tapping is really useful. Journaling. Going for a walk with your dog, taking a shower, um, I love all of

Jacqui Acree: 1:07:16

Laughter is huge for me. If you can find somebody to laugh with, like the whole, like, send a meme to a friend thing is such a source of joy. You know, when you feel seen and you can have a shared laugh over something. Um, so, that's something I'll do as a micro regulation for myself is if I'm out, if I have a moment and I'm feeling stressed and what I feel like doing is being on my phone, okay, well don't scroll. Because again, that can actually be very dysregulating. Uh, but can you intentionally go to something funny? Like, is there a meme account that you love? Or if you are going to scroll, just go as far as you need to go until you find something funny and then send it to a friend. But that shared moment of laughter is pretty big, actually, for regulation.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:08:03

Yeah, I love that.

Jacqui Acree: 1:08:04

Sometimes it's all we need is a little boost.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:08:07

Why don't you send me, and we'll put it in the show notes, like a little meme or something funny, and I will share a link to,

Jacqui Acree: 1:08:14

Okay. I can always just do that. Oh, I like it. It'll be hard to choose just one. I love, that's one of my favorite things is just having a good giggle over, over that. Yes. I will send you one. And then maybe the listeners can, if they like, they can send us one too. And we can all have a shared giggle together. So you're more than welcome. You can find me on Instagram if you're listening to this and you want to send me a meme or a reel or something that made you laugh, I will send one back to you. We'll have a good shared giggle.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:08:42

I love that. Okay. Share your details. I'm gonna put the link for Happiest Holidays in the show notes.

Jacqui Acree: 1:08:50

For Instagram,

Steph Barron Hall: 1:08:51

hmm.

Jacqui Acree: 1:08:52

it's yeah, at, it's at obviously Jackie. acre. So J A C Q U I dot A C R E E, but we'll put in the show notes. You'll be able to find me.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:09:01

Great. Well, thanks so much

Jacqui Acree: 1:09:03

thank you for inviting me on to have this conversation. And like, I think the most important thing, at least this is what I would like to leave people with, is you're not alone. If your holidays feel hard, it probably makes sense. So first of all, like giving yourself that, like. Validation, your holidays might feel, might, it might make sense why your holidays feel hard and you're not the only one struggling. It's not a personal failure. Um, and then look for those micro self maintenance or micro, uh, regulation moments and allow something small to be enough.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:09:43

Yeah. I love that. Thanks so much.

Jacqui Acree: 1:09:48

Thanks. We'll see you next time.

Steph Barron Hall: 1:09:50

Thanks so much for listening to Enneagram IRL. If you love the show, be sure to subscribe and leave us a rating and review. This is the easiest way to make sure new people find the show. And it's so helpful for a new podcast like this one, if you want to stay connected. Sign up for my email list in the show notes or message me on instagram at nine types co to tell me your one big takeaway from today's show I'd love to hear from you. I know there are a million podcasts you could have been listening to, and I feel so grateful that you chose to spend this time with me. Can't wait to meet you right back here for another episode of any grim IRL very soon. The Enneagram and real life podcast is a production of nine types co LLC. It's created and produced by Stephanie Barron hall. With editing support from Brandon Hall. And additional support from crits collaborations. Thanks to dr dream chip for our amazing theme song and you can also check out all of their music on spotify